The Reaction to This Was Muslim Tolerance In Action
The Washington Examiner goes toe-to-toe with TIME and its conclusion that Americans are “Islamophobic”, and drags the accusation kicking and screaming into the brutal light of reality.
But, as the article concedes, there has been no increase in violence against Muslims. In reality, Americans remain fastidiously tolerant of all religions, even one that inspired 19 fanatics to hijack four commercial airliners on 9/11 and kill more than 3,000 Americans in the bloodiest attack in our nation’s history. Time requires a peculiar sort of blindness to see so much imagined intolerance in America — especially based solely on “anecdotal evidence” — while nearly ignoring the religious intolerance in most Islamic countries. A group of triumphalist Muslims seeks to erect an Islamic center near Ground Zero in a city that already has 100 mosques, and they face, at worst, disapproval, stern looks and calls to relocate their project.
Its been a tough year for the Left.
The Race Card? Maxxed Out.
The Bigotry Claim? Rejected.
And the self-loathing Moral Equivalency Play? Over before it starts:
Contrast this with a news report by journalist Mindy Belz in the current issue of World magazine, concerning Afghanistan’s small community of Christian converts. Belz describes how an Afghan television station recently broadcast a video of a baptismal service, sparking riots in the streets of Kabul and leading to the arrest of 25 Christians. Nobody knows at this time the fate of those arrested. Because it is illegal for Muslims to convert in Afghanistan — as it is in most Islamic countries — people who choose any other faith face the death penalty. Adherents of other religions, meanwhile, are subject to official discrimination and persecution, despite guarantees to the contrary in Afghanistan’s constitution. Thus, the plight of Christians is shared in many Islamic countries by Buddhists, Baha’is, Hindus and Zoroastrians.
And one more kick to the crotch, for good measure:
As Time puts it, it is wrong to “conflate Islam with terrorism and savagery.” But the world must be dealt with as it is and not as we wish it were. That requires us to accept the reality that Muslim nations are the most religiously intolerant places on Earth, and that a startling number of Islamic clerics worldwide still refuse to condemn violence against nonbelievers. In contrast, Americans who oppose the mosque are not even demanding that its developers be arrested or harmed in any way for their beliefs. They ask only that the mosque developers voluntarily show common sense, decency and sensitivity for America’s loss on 9/11.
But it isn’t the same muslims who flew the planes into the towers, so it should be hunky dorey, right?
But America shares the blame for 9/11 because of our policies, according to our innocent Park51 Imam. If true, I think what he owns is a far heavier burden.
a phobia is an irrational fear.
Fear of Islamists doesn’t strike me as particularly irrational…
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by The H2, Blackiswhite, IC. Blackiswhite, IC said: The GZ moral equivalency lie. http://tinyurl.com/284kh6d [...]
Nothing irrational about having reservations about a “religion” thats at war with non believers for eternity.
What’s most deliciously ironic about Americans’ mushrooming antipathy to Islam is that the Ground Zero Mosque is likely to cement that antipathy irrevocably into place. Now, refresh my memory, please: just whose idea was that?
Francis,
I think one of the blessings of this GZ mosque was how it reveled how deep the alliance between islam and the left is. When Pelosi called out for an investigation into the critics of the mosque, it really showed their hand. Loonberg’s comments were reveling as well.
I’m gonna drink til I’m drunk tonight. Then drink some more.
Fuck a bunch Hajii’s.
I hate islam, I was neutral on 9-11.
Then I saw the beheadings.
Fuck Islam with a sideways swordfish.
Idiots.
Me, I am going to get some sleep, wake up, go to work, and repeat the whole process over again.
Oh, and as far as Islam goes, I won’t go out of my way to harm any who happen to cross my path doing their day to day business (shopping and the like – and we do have a few even here in the hinterlands). But as easily as they can build a mosque, we can tear it down, as often as it takes to get the point across. That of course would only be for starters.
I hope you’re only speaking metaphorically about “tearing it down.”
You all are the ones who have supported their legal right to build here, just questioned the “sensitivity” of doing so. If you start advocating violence and destruction, you will be the ones in jail and the Muslims will be the ones in the right.
BlackIsWhite – it’s exactly this sort of violent language that some of us fear is behind this. Not merely disagreement, but violent disagreement.
These folk will undo any claims your “side” has to rational discourse.
Of course, hopefully this fella is only speaking metaphorically. It just doesn’t sound like he is.
Violent language is so scawwie.
And it is never wational.
(Pansies.)
Rauf’s Dawa from the World Trade Center Rubble
Meet the Ground Zero Mosque imam’s Muslim Brotherhood friends.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/243536
Something for the drones and moderates to read.
The Battalions of Islam
by Baron Bodissey
As mentioned here repeatedly, the most telling document [pdf] to emerge from the Holy Land Foundation trial in 2008 was written in 1991 by Mohamed Akram. It describes the long-term Muslim Brotherhood plan for Islamic subversion in the United States:
The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the means. The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. […] It is a Muslim’s destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is…
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/08/battalions-of-islam.html#readfurther
And this is aided by the useful idiots;the drones and the moderates.
Here, hold this.
Crunchy Tuna Surprise
Ingredients
* 1 can (12 ounces) tuna, drained and flaked
* 1-1/2 cups cooked rice
* 1 can (10-3/4 ounces) condensed cream of mushroom soup, undiluted
* 1/2 cup milk
* 1/4 cup minced fresh parsley
* 3/4 cup crushed cornflakes
* 2 tablespoons butter, melted
Directions
* In a bowl, combine the first five ingredients. Transfer to a greased shallow 1-1/2-qt. baking dish. Combine the cornflake crumbs and butter; sprinkle over the top. Bake, uncovered, at 350° for 25-30 minutes or until bubbly. Yield: 4 servings.
Wow Dick, I never saw you as the Suzy homemaker type.
Since you’re tossing out Tuna recipes, I’d thought I’d toss one your way.
Make some Tuna salad, like you normally would for a sandwich
Boil some rice- white or brown, whichever you prefer
Dice some tomatoes, onions (Walla walla, Red or Chives), Jalapenos, and black olives
Salad greens
Lay out the salad greens on a plate and place a scoop of rice on one side and a scoop of tuna salad on the other. Spread the diced vegatables on top, salt and pepper as appropriate, and there you have it: the world famouse Camp Smith, named after the base where the U.S. Pacific Command is stationed. Quite the treat.
BIC,
What you have provided clearly illustrates the intolerance of Islam for other religions (while under Muslim rule), including a sentence of death for those who abandon Islam for another religion ( I can’t help but wonder how this might affect our current White House resident, since one who is born of even one Muslim parent is automatically considered a member of the faith).
What I fail to see is any clear indication of significant intolerance for the practice of Islam within the United States, despite the typically hysterical attempts by the “Times” to convince us otherwise. From some of the comments I have seen listed on this blog, I might even come to the conclusion that there is more antipathy and intolerance directed toward Christianity and the Jewish faith, particularly by the media.
Maine, ain’t that the truth.
( I can’t help but wonder how this might affect our current White House resident, since one who is born of even one Muslim parent is automatically considered a member of the faith)
Thats…..just……insane.
Ask Alfie aka al-Faheed
Woman Suing Disney Over Hijab Didn’t Wear It Until She Became A US Citizen; She Had Been Working For Disney For Two Years Without Wearing It
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/22/woman-suing-disney-over-hijab-didnt-wear-it-until-she-became-a-us-citizen-she-had-been-working-for-disney-for-two-years-without-wearing-it/#comment-234028
Stealth Jihad.
Yeah Elric … Obama has that demon seed.
BiW … this is tiring. I’m beginning to think the mosque thing is to you what you say Sarah Palin is to me … an unhealthy obsession. Keep on this path and you will become Elric … a fate I would never wish on you.
The very best contributions on this thread so far come from Dick and Gorilla. At least they’ve provided some information I can use to enhance my life.
BiW … this is tiring. I’m beginning to think the mosque thing is to you what you say Sarah Palin is to me … an unhealthy obsession.
Except for the fact that I have discussed a threat to us all, and the only threat Sarah represents is to the liberal mantra.
The Ground Zero mosque protest was awesome. Went much better than expected. Was a very teachable moment for those who didnt know about islam. Plus I got a tingle down my leg hearing anti Obama chants in the center of NYC.
Hey, Elric, I have to imagine this “protest” made it into the papers and there couldn’t have been more than a dozen or so of them ….. so please link us a picture of the protesters from some online source so we can get a look at you.
If I remember correctly, you live somewhere between Maine and Massachusetts. Hell, you should’ve stopped by my house on the way down to NYC. Seeing you as a human being might help me understand you better.
Having seen some of the news coverage of the NYC protest, I think you, Elric, should be ashamed of yourself for having been there.
At least you have established one thing. You’re more than a basement dwelling coward. I think I would have preferred that.
Guess what Elric? I want my country back. It is you and those like you who are going to destroy it.
Sadly as my fellow registered Republicans continue to lose their faculties I am left in the proverbial wilderness.
#1. It is generally understood by most that BHO Sr. was an atheist. His mom also not the most religious creature on Earth.=not a Muslim
#2.There is a number of sources that would seem to indicate that if a baby doesn’t have a certain prayer uttered into their ear they are not Muslim.Is it likely a socialist atheist would’ve uttered the words?
#3.There was widely covered piece on how a President Obama would be under the added danger for being an apostate.So seeing as so many folks ate that up…how’s he a Muslim?
#4. 20 years in a black liberation theology church.Now that’s some serious taqiyya.
#5. I’ll throw some red meat though to everyone here. According to the Shahih Muslim hadith translations every child is born a Muslim,it is the parents that make the child a Jew,Christian or polytheist.Of course this is similar to how the Mormons say prayers for everyone that uses Ancestery so they can get into real heaven.
And here comes al-Faheed to the rescue.
I always fear if I agree with Alfie, he’ll change his mind just because I’m agreeing with him.
Well, I’ll take that risk and thank Alfie profusely for shining the light of sanity on the Obama the Muslim meme.
Not only was Barack’s biological father an atheist, his step father Lolo Soetero was not a devout Muslim, practicing instead a bastardized version of the religion with Hindu influences … and even that practice was hardly devout.
I’d like to know where Billy Graham went wrong in raising his son Franklin. The son, sadly is pushing this foolishness and the media, sadly, is giving him a pulpit. Oh well.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/davidhorsey/archives/218749.asp
al-Faheed thinks the name “Hussein” is African. Insane
Investigative Report: Exposing the Cordoba Islamic Center of Manhattan
By Doug Hagmann Thursday, July 29, 2010
Introduction
For the last several months, I have been covertly investigating the people, power and money behind the proposed “9/11 mega mosque” planned for the old Burlington Coat Factory situated just two blocks from “Ground Zero” in lower Manhattan. In order to provide the most comprehensive and fact-based insight into this issue as possible, I deliberately postponed publishing any reports until my investigation, consisting of direct and indirect inquiries, procurement of records, and the use of operational assets to develop information was complete.
While any person of reasonable sensibilities and a working moral compass could legitimately find the construction of an Islamic center in such close proximity to the graveyard of thousands of innocent Americans of 9/11 objectionable, there are many proponents who argue that its construction will serve as an example of American understanding, tolerance, compassion and respect for a religion that has been maligned by the actions of a minority. The legitimacy of the argument on behalf of its placement should become moot by simply citing two basic but important concepts: historical precedent and the understanding that Islam is more than a religion. If those points fail to convince an ostensibly objective audience as they have to date, then the results of my investigation should cause anyone with the least bit of intellectual honesty to strongly object to any Islamic structure being built at the intended location.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25941
Oooooo “covert” investigation. Sure signal author is a crackpot.
name calling from Elric. The true constant in the blogosphere.
For the record what I said to Elrics comment that Obama changed his name to an Islamic one was:
In fairness to Franklin his full comment should be taken into consideration prior to using it on any end of the discussion.Although he erroneously plays the born Muslim card he states with certainty that Obama is indeed a Christian.
No he didn’t Alfie. I saw the interview. He did the same dog whistle bullsh*t that Mitch McConnell did. The President “says he is a Christian”. Pure motherf*cking bullsh*t. No need to hedge. Is he or isn’t he?
This whole mosque story needs to end real soon cos I’m not sure how much longer my blood pressure can take it.
I don’t think America has to demonstrate anything. Tolerance, understanding, compassion. We’ve done just so all along.
We’ve already got thousands of mosques around the United States. The do the call to prayer in Hamtramck Michigan. Football players in Dearborn practice in the middle of the night in order to observe Ramadan.
Someone keeps moving the fucking goalposts.
There’s no goal post being moved. If Muslims want to put a mosque next door to your f*cking house and the zoning board approves it, they get to do it. This is America. I don’t know what country you think you live in. You don’t like it … move to another f*cking neighborhood.
And if the KKK wants to put a meeting house next to your house, they get to do it too, right? I mean, it’s not like THOSE KKK members actually lynched anyone.
And really, how could you think to be so intolerant as to protest and seek every legal means available to prevent the construction from taking place?
Guess what Natassia, if known racists want a meeting center next door to me and they have no criminal record nor anything else that would prevent them from getting a building permit, then they get to have their meeting place … and if it really gives me the woolies, then I have to move. That is the way America works.
But let’s not forget, the KKK is not a religion so your hypothetical is dead on arrival. And despite what some on this board would have you believe, Islam is a religion.
You wanna screw with the First Amendment, be my guest but expect to have a major fight on your hands.
Protesting the construction of a mosque is not a violation of Muslim Americans’ First Amendment rights. It is simply an expression of non-Muslims’ First Amendment rights.
Seeking every legal means necessary to prevent the construction of a mosque is also not a violation of Muslim Americans’ First Amendment rights.
And one could easily argue that Islam is not simply a religion but that it is more of a political supremacist ideology and an anti-Semitic belief system. Geez, what does that sound like?
Being a white supremacist is not illegal in this country, and no one (who is important anyway) is suggesting that we make it illegal to be a Muslim.
But there is nothing unconstitutional about Americans making Muslims feel very uncomfortable here, just as we have ostracized the KKK. Most of American society considers the KKK to be a loathed psycho fringe group, which is why most of its members remain anonymous.
And all done without violating white supremacists’ First Amendment rights.
Because seriously, who gets to determine what a “religion” is anyway?
Natassia …. good question about who declares what is a religion. I say the practitioners of the belief system get to say if they think it is a religion.
Were it up to folks like me, they’d all be labeled cults of one kind or another.
“No he was born with one,he did indeed change his identity later in life but that is obviously more in line with his Afro-centric desires not Islam.”
In other words, Hussein according to al-Faheed, is “Afro-centric”, not islamic. Thanks for playing moron. al-Thuggy is lucky to have such a pandering fool like you going to bat for him.
Elric you’re so fucking stupid it amazes me you find the computer keys to type your comments.
There are no “other words” to what I said. In his pathetic pursuit of his lost daddy and he did indeed reach out to his Afro-centric roots. This is mostly focused on going from Barry to Barack. This is also visible within the second and third generation of Latinos,amongst Chinese Americans and to a degree is visible within the Native American communities.
In reverse order the official outlawing of Hawaiian culture back in the day,the next governor of SC story and countless other examples exist.
If someone else has a comment on this let it rip but I’m done with E66.
I wonder what would happen if we had a president who was Cauca-centric.
BIC since I’ve played party to pissing on you as a host and roaming off topic I’ll apologize and put out that I found your post to be edgy and focused, as your posts tend to be.
-Alfie or should I say Al-Fie? lol
Elric66 has included a link to Doug Hagmann’s investigative report covering the “Cordoba Islamic Center of Manhattan” that provides a ton of information for those open-minded and curious enough to peruse it.
It should be obvious by now that this project is a product of massive international influence and not basic repairs to a building that was damaged in the 9/11 attack and for the past year has actually been serving as an Islamic prayer center. I do not believe that many people would insist that these religious activities be halted and banned from the property – certainly, I am not one of them. But I will continue to protest the expansion of the building into a massive propaganda entity, funded by foreign entities whose cloaked purposes appear to indicate motives of political, social, and religious domination as opposed to freedom of choice.
A little too presumptuous, Alfie. I am not a registered Republican (not a registered anything, actually, although I consider myself a conservative on most issues if you insist on classifying me). Good information, though.
I have yet to label Obama a Muslim, even though a significant part of his childhood was spent in a Muslim environment due to the influence of his stepfather. There is some indication that Obama’s father may have been a non-practicing Muslim (would an atheist actually choose the middle name “Hussein” for his son?). There can be little argument, I would think, that his actions over the years and up until the present have been influenced by an affinity for the Islamic culture.
“Elric you’re so fucking stupid it amazes me you find the computer keys to type your comments.”
Hey pussy, if you cant hack it and ban me on your blog, dont engage me on someone elses blog.
Maine,
Now you are sounding “insane”. There is a 0.0 percent chance that he is a muslim according to al-Faheed.
Maine,
That it was called the Cordoba project should have raised a red flag from the beginning.
“We are deeply concerned, because this is like a metastasized antisemitism,” said Daisy Khan, who is spearheading the project with her husband, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. “It’s beyond Islamophobia. It’s hate of Muslims.”
Notice leftists and islamists use the same tactics?
@maine
I see how in context the opening of my comment appears aimed at you. It wasn’t,so I apologize.
The fact that up to a third of registered Republicans believe Obama is a Muslim is what that was aimed at.
Elric you were banned because you are a truckload of negatives. As for engaging you bring it on yourself by calling me out. You are engaging me as evidenced in your comment issued immediately after calling me a pussy.
Thought you were done with me al-Faheed? More hypocrisy and lies from the pandering fool?
“The fact that up to a third of registered Republicans believe Obama is a Muslim is what that was aimed at.”
So? More people think he is a Christian. Dont see you attacking those people. More evidence he is a muslim than a Christian. But then you are a hypocrite.
You’re the biggest horse’s ass on the Internet. A minority of those polled believe he’s Chrsitian. A bunch of loons (you among them) think he’s Muslim and then there are the real ignorant assh*les who are not sure. Together they make up a majority.
“R”,
Has it ever dawned on you that MaObama neither a real Christian or Muslim, but simply a lost sheep?
Anyone can call themselves Christian; same with Muslim. I believe Bongo has taken parts of whatever he’s comfortable with and made his own narcissistic religion – with him front and center. He believes himself “special” like the king. The schmuck actually called the beatitudes “radical”.
Perhaps this is why Bongo called the Sermon on the Mount radical.
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ – Matthew 7:23
Tex, truth be told, I think Obama is a secret atheist is if he is a secret anything-at-all.
See you’re doing it again.
Why would I “attack” those that see Obama as a Christian? I would also point out that I’m not attacking those that call him a Muslim. I’m just stating that they’re wrong,have no evidence and cheapen the credible points we should be making against him,his administration etc. There is NO evidence he is a Muslim…that’s the whole point!!!!
“Why would I “attack” those that see Obama as a Christian?”
To show you arent a hypocritical jerk.
“There is NO evidence he is a Muslim…that’s the whole point!!!!”
So says the pandering moderate. And as usual you avoid attacking those that say he is a Christian. Is there evidence he is or not?
20 years in a black liberation theology church,or have you forgotten the storm over that?.
Franklin Grahams statement and numerous other pastors that have served Obama and his family and have prayed with or given guidance to the guy.
Not “attacking” those that claim Obama is a Christian is hypocritical? and ??????
So a black liberation “church” is a Christian church? Really? Your bias gets more transparent with every reply.
So a black liberation “church” is a Christian church? Really? Your bias gets more transparent with every reply.
uhhh yeah a BLT church,specifically Trinity is indeed a Christian church.
It’s about as “Christian” as the NOI is “Muslim.”
“uhhh yeah a BLT church,specifically Trinity is indeed a Christian church.”
Talk about insane. Real Christians would disagree with your insanity.
muslims and leftists UNITE!!!!
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/23/video-communist-speaker-at-pro-ground-zero-mosque-rally-rails-against-zionist-jews/#comment-234586
Real Christians would disagree with your insanity.
Bring it.
I certainly disagree, and I’m not insane.
Black liberation theology is self-centered. It’s reminiscent of the Jewish-centered Christians described in the book of Acts.
Besides, the Apostle Paul wrote in his letter to the Galatians: “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
The whole concept of blt (not bacon-lettuce-tomato) is based on envy and self-pity.
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/perspectives/twentyseven.html
If you think Christianity condones racism, antisemtism, “social justice” and partial birth abortion you more of a friggin fool than I thought.
You have just proved my theory that moderates such as yourself are more loathsome, vile creatures than even the leftists you pander to. Really disgusting how far you will lower yourself to defend and pander to the enemies of the USA. I did pussies an injustice by calling you one.
http://www.ucc.org/
be sure to drop them a line and tell them they’re not Christians.
Too late, you are exposed moron. Give you enough rope you leftists hang yourselves.
Many More Now Following Mosque Controversy – And Don’t Like It
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2010/many_more_now_following_mosque_controversy_and_don_t_like_it
The silver lining about this, more people are learning about the real islam. Must really piss off the pandering moderates. More “phobes” to attack.
Excellent post.
Do drones ever say anything intelligent?
Sorry took so long in replying to Dan’s comment on my comment above.
I want to believe there are moderate Muslims.
I want to believe there are those, particularly those in this country, who follow this “creed”, who are Americans first and Muslim second. That sharia law, if it is ever allowed to become fully “in force”, will ALWAYS be suborned to the laws of this land.
I want to believe the above, but with very few exceptions (and ironically enough, especially if you are Muslim, mostly female voices), there have not been any so called “moderate Muslims” who have had any credibility once you look a bit deeper into their actions and or their past. (BTW, CAIR and The Muslim Brotherhood don’t even come close to meeting the criteria of “moderate Muslim”, so don’t even try with those two, mkay.)
I believe there are those who profess this “moral” (Yes, those are scorn quotes, why do you ask?) philosophical, and political “ism” is a legitimate way to lead ones life and build ones culture around … but (they claim) it is going to take some time to “reform” it. To get the “rough edges” off of it. That it is only “a few bad apples”, “a few misguided Imans/leaders, who are “misinterpreting” the Koran, and the “true message(s) of Mohamed”
My reply to that is two part:
1. You yahoos have had the better part of 1400 years to get your stuff in one sock. To iron out your differences, or to splinter off into “various flavors” of the faith. Indeed, there has been, even as recently as 1980-1988 there was the little skirmish between Iran and Iraq – not the closest of religious buddies – (Shiite and Sunni anyone?) That made Luther’s posting his “note” on the door, and the associated Reformation look like a “tickle fight” in comparison.
2. Ya’ll lie better than a 20 dollar hooker, when the fleets in port and shore leave has commenced. At the end of the day there are only two (until formally proven otherwise) kinds of Muslims. Those who are passive, who go along with the crowd, but do not actively participate in any sort of aggressive action(s) … be it violent demonstration, active forms of civil unrest or disobedience, or acts of “terror(ism)”. The ones who go about their daily business, daily prayers. Living their life but tacitly approving of the actions of those who do.
Then there are those who are not passive.
There has yet to be shown any sect (that is currently active and or has any chance of surviving over the course of the next decade) of the Muslim “faith” which legitimately could be considered as moderate.
So Dan, yeah when I said “… we can tear it down …” I meant exactly that. We could tear it down. The “We” might be me, it might be some other individual(s). It might never happen, as there have been any number of union folk who flat refuse (and have gone public in saying so) to provide any sort of labor in the building of this travesty.
Lines are being, and have been drawn in the sand. And I for one am damn sick and tired, of bending over backwards to appear tolerant, when my enemy wants nothing more then my complete and total submission to his faith, his ideals, and his politics.
I will have none of it.
BiW apologies in advance for hogging your bandwidth. Edit as you see fit.
Guy S.
A tour de force, sir. My hats off to you.
If I knew how to do it you would get the saluting smiley.
there have not been any so called “moderate Muslims” who have had any credibility once you look a bit deeper into their actions and or their past.
Reza Aslan?
Nobel Peace Prize winner Shirin Ebadi?
My Moroccan friends’ many Muslim friends who, they assure me, are quite reasonable, peaceful and respectful of differences?
The Muslims involved with Muslim Peacemaker Teams?
The Muslims involved with Christian Peacemaker Teams?
What are their problems?
Lines are being, and have been drawn in the sand. And I for one am damn sick and tired, of bending over backwards to appear tolerant
And so I still wonder: Are you calling for the physical and illegal destruction of this Islamic Center when it gets built? If you blow that building up, what would be next for you? The other 13 (or however many) mosques in NYC?
If you’re concerned about appearing tolerant – don’t worry about it. You aren’t. Not that I can see.
UNLESS you’re just speaking metaphorically.
So how about a direct answer: Actually, physically tear down Muslim buildings? Yes or no?
So Dan, yeah when I said “… we can tear it down …” I meant exactly that. We could tear it down. The “We” might be me, it might be some other individual(s).
Well, I would hope that the others here who agree that the Muslims have a right to build at this site, even if they think it’s in poor taste, will stand with me against these sorts of threats of physical violence.
What do you think? Bombs? Bulldozers? How do you advocate destroying this building? Does it matter to you if people are harmed in the process?
Are you prepared to go to jail for this or is this just the whining of a wimp?
Are you prepared to sign your real name to these illegal threats?
Illegal threats? Just words my man. Distance and lack of specific defined intent, make this no more then playground ranting. As far as legalities go.
But if you are trying to say there are not these sorts of people out there. Those who will see this for what it is; a physical slap across the face of American culture. And decide to take action (of what form or type, your guess is as good as mine) than you are sadly mistaken. If nothing else the “trade unions” have enough individuals in their ranks who would like nothing better then to see this take so many years and so many millions of dollars to build, that it will never come to be a finished product. And there are also those within the ranks of the “brotherhood” who are of a more physical and direct nature. I may not actively support them, but pardon me if I at least tacitly approve of their action(s).
You catch the irony here? Sounds suspiciously like those of the Muslim faith who “tacitly” approve of what their more boisterous followers have and are doing. They just don’t actively participate (other than perhaps contributing monies and other items via their mosque or other agent).
@ GuyS
Damn, I feel dumb.
I wouldn’t have caught the irony if you hadn’t spelled it out.
Tarnished suit-of-armor or not, I am still really admiring your comments.
GuyS is my new hero.
Thank you ma’am for the high praise. Though you will forgive me in saying your eyesight is in need of looking into. My armor is rusted and tarnished. My steed swaybacked and no longer fleet of foot. The steel of my sword and shield is true and good, but the blade dull from years of resting in it’s honored spot above the hearth.
And though my legs would do their darnedest to place me in a heroic stance, alas my feet are made of clay and would surely crumble were I to leap up and try to assume the position.
Perhaps someday there will be a grandchild who will take the dust and rust off their grandpa … then we shall see.
Natassia should look elsewhere for her heroes.
I love it when someone (GuyS) says there are only two kinds of [fill in the blank]. That’s when we know we’re headed down generalization boulevard.
Let me be your speech writer Guy … I already have some great slogans I know you’d sign off on:
Guy: “You know when a Muslim is lying? His lips move.”
Guy” “There are only two kinds of good Muslims: those that have converted to Christianity and dead ones.”
Is that a good start for you Guy?
Good Lord!
Is this the same goon that accuses others of “generalizations” and the first words out of his mouth about priests “pedophilia”, Christians “Crusades” – “George Tiller” – “intolerant”, and Republicans as “rich”?
And you’re going to accuse anyone of Generalization Boulevard?
Pot, meet kettle
Rutherford,
Generalizations are not necessarily wrong, generally speaking.
One could say there are two kinds of Christians: the ones who walk the walk and those who don’t.
One could say there are two kinds of Jews: the ones who practice Judaism and the ones who don’t.
There actually is nothing factually wrong or illogical about what GuyS said.
As of yet, any of the reformist sects that have tried to pop up are squashed in Islamic countries and not taken seriously in Western ones. In fact, the only successful “reformation” of Islam was the Wahabbi movement. And we know where that took us: back-to-basics fundamentalism.
It’s kind of like generalizing about racists.
There are those who are not openly racist, but simply by believing the same things that active racists do and by not condemning their behavior, they are indirectly supporting the racism. And then there are those racists who don’t care about what other people think and are viral with their racism, like David Duke.
Islam is anti-Semitism institutionalized. Just many Muslims aren’t very vocal about it.
Well Natassia, I guess someone better tell that to the Jewish Community Center in New York, who have been advising the leaders of this mosque on how to proceed. I guess they must be pretty masochistic.
Liberalism is suicidal.
Jews who ascribe to the liberal philosophy (all religions are equal and good, intolerance of intolerance is hate, etc.) make wonderful Dhimmis.
They are walking straight into the crocodile’s mouth.
“An appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.” ~ Winston Churchill
Liberal Jews are your modern-day Neville Chamberlains.
“They promise they are moderate, and they promise that Islam is a religion of peace! Look, they even wrote it down on a piece of paper!”
Hell, as long as you would like to deal in stereotypes and generalizations, here’s one for ya Rutherford:
“Rutherford you ignorant slut …” (hey, it must be true, your writings have painted you as someone who refuses to comprehend what they are commenting on … a trait of those of the liberal persuasion -or a fellow traveler-, and as most of said liberals are also, if not out and out sexually permissive, at least approve of same in others. Ergo you are both ignorant and a slut.)
Oh, sorry about that I must have been generalizing or stereotyping again.
Look. read the Koran. Read the associated codes and laws directly woven into the practice of that faith, and the governments (when given the opportunity) formed around same (and the societies/cultures associated with same, for that matter). Read any number of Iman’s and other Islamic “scholars” interpretation of the word.
I didn’t start out disapproving of Islam. Indeed, I used to work (peripherally) for the Kuwaiti Air Force. I dealt with some aspect of the Islamic culture on an almost daily basis.
Individually, they were people with good traits and bad, much like any other human being. But if one embraces a cult without expecting to be changed then they are a fool. And these people were not fools. Some were “better Muslims” than others. And some appeared to embrace the western view of things (at least while they were in this country and could afford to take advantage of our culture before having to return to their country and the restrictions placed on them there.
Oh, and your comment about “You know when a Muslim is lying? His lips move.” (Don’t quit your day job just yet, cause you ain’t quite ready for the open mike nite at the local comedy club.) I won’t automatically distrust someone “just because they are a professed Muslim”. But owing to their sanctioned actions of freely being able to lie or deceive any so called infidel, (and this goes across Sunni, Shiite, and Wahabbist lines) I would be foolish not be weary of any transaction until proven otherwise.
And I never said there needs to be a conversion to Christianity. I don’t care what they believe in (or even if they believe in nothing at all). What I do care about is the cult of Islam is intent in either the short or long term, in the complete and utter destruction of not only the West (including us) but ANY other belief system and or culture other then their own. Some are a tad more patent than others.
However if there is (as I said before, had you bothered to read what was written) a legitimate moderate Muslim sect, which seeks to advance a benign version of this cult, I strongly suspect they would be welcomed around the world with open arms (except by the other Muslim sects who would consider them apostate, and thus fair game to be imprisoned, butchered, and or killed).
Finally, Rutherford old boar, when you have gained the superpower of reading men,s minds (And Lamont Cranston you ain’t), at that time, and only that time will you even be close to commenting on my lack of compassion toward my fellow man. Or painting me as something you might get a little funny in the paints about, but is not likely to be an honest or objective portrait of the one you know so very little about.
“A good start”??? Hell, I think I’ll let Dick “tenderize” you a bit more, cause I hate chewing on tough troll.
You know Guy …. I’ve never read any of your comments before and quite frankly, I owe you an apology.
Fact is, I love this country for its tolerance. I love the fact that this country stands for freedom of expression and belief. I see that being challenged now and as every day passes in this mosque debate, my blood pressure rises a bit further.
You were the undeserving target of my wrath, having read too many damn comments lately about the hopelessness of Islam reform. It didn’t help my humor to read more comments from Islam-expert Elric, whom I thought had finally found a life beyond the blogosphere, only to discover he’s still carrying Robert Spencer’s water all over the net.
Anyway, I got off to a bad start with you. I probably won’t agree with you, but I had no right to label you a bigot without better evidence.
Oh by the way, Dick is my protector on the prison block.
You really do not want to go on about New York Jewry (v a v the Community Center). There are political goings on in that City which will rival anything I have seen or heard back in the days when I dealt with the City of Chicago. Also, a very good buddy (and former Navy shipmate) who happens to have been a born and raised “New York Jew” will tell you in no uncertain terms what a bunch of liberal asshats your “typical” New York Jew is.
Masochistic? Bind would be much closer to the truth, though my money is on politically expedient.
Dick is your protector???!! Man, that has got to cost you a ton o smokes (or smuggled in tequila).
And though I tend to agree with Spencer’s writings, my own research (admittedly limited) was started well before I had ever heard of that gent. Working for the Kuwaitis was back in the late 90′s, and a couple of blog posts I had done on moderate Muslims was done in mid 2005, if memory serves, well before I read his books.
Brains over brawn, baby!
Ma’am I’ve read your posts and am very impressed with your understandinf of the subject at hand. I must applaud you and Guy S. on your measured and erudite ruminations.
A bow to both of you.
Now if I could just spell.lol.
That should be “understanding”.
I see drones are still obsessed with me.
You ever notice drones will smear Spencer without evidence? But then thats what drones do. Smear without proof. Dont like Spencer, prove where he is wrong.
I never said I didn’t like him (Spencer). In fact I have at least one of his books, via Amazon, here in my bunker in the hinterlands. My one real concern with the man (his writings actually, I have never had occasion to meet him) is he IMHO, tends to come across as somewhat redundant . Perhaps this is to pad his book a bit, or he may only want to insure he is able to bring home one particular point in his argument(s) if nothing else. I find it a bit distracting. YMMV.
That being said, Spencer “gets it”. The whole Islamic “package” (religion/law/body politic) demands by its words, actions, and deeds, to be observed and perhaps at the very least contained. More to follow.
Guy,
It wasnt directed towards you. It was a challenge to the drones. You are anything but a drone.
If a practicing Muslim is following his or her religion as Allah intends, sharia is incompatible with the U.S. Constitution. Islamic law prohibits democratic law-making period.
Where Christianity says render into Caesar what is Caesar’s, Islamic law does not separate Allah’s laws from Caesar’s laws.
And Rutherford, you are the most duplicitous, disingenuous blogger this side of Graychin that I read – at least about religion. Without knowing anything of any depth about Christianity, you the supposed progressive, who scolds many of us about our supposed “intolerance” of gay marriage and chauvinism while making completely unfounded accusations of us being proponents of Christian theocracy, practice taqqiya with the best of them. You’re sleeping with those who will slay you while spitting in the face of those who keep you from having your head removed from you torso.
Sharia brutalizes women, treats them as second-class citizens, authorizes the murder of homosexuals, and apostates are to be met with the sword.
If you had any sense, you’d be ashamed of how corrupt your judgment is.
“You’re sleeping with those who will slay you while spitting in the face of those who keep you from having your head removed from you torso.”
Definitely a quote-of-the-day.
Tex,
Drones have no shame. Thats why they are drones.
LOL …. Tex this is the sharp analysis for which you so admire Elric? Just too funny for words.
What’s too funny for words, or perhaps the height of irony is the Harvard debate graduate who continually ignores the truth, leaves the debate questions unanswered, and instead demonstrates a predilection for the irrelevant.
I like you “R”, even like your humor, think you one of the best libs going (albeit not much of a compliment), but I don’t think you have a lick of sense about your alleged grievances.