One of the things I have truly enjoyed in starting a dialogue with Rutherford is the opportunity to engage a few leftists who actually make a real attempt to justify their beliefs, and are capable of talking without simply tossing a bomb and leaving. One of these people is the Rutherford regular, Hippieprof.
A few days ago, the Hippieprof tossed out the idea that FOX is an “unbalanced” news source because he has never seen a positive news story on Obama’s successes on it. I suggested that perhaps that would be because there was no success to report. Which then tumbled to his postulation that conservatives never see any of his successes as successes because we only watch FOX and FOX only says that he is a dismal failure. (Yeah, I know that means that he always seems to miss where Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, and other left-leaning spin doctors try to educate the various viewers about all the things the Democrats do right, I was trying to roll with it…), and I asked him what these successes were.
Life was intervening at various points, and the only answer he had time to provide was the appointment of Justice Sotomayor to the Supreme Court. I asked him why he thought this was so, and pointed him to my post “Unfit and Injudicious”. Instead of telling me why this was a success, he simply informed me that my demonstration of her repeated instances of injudicious conduct was simply an opinion, which could be wrong because other “experts” had come to a different conclusion. I suppose that because some “experts” believe that drug use is a victimless crime, those who conclude differently by measuring the cost to society and damage to non-using family members also have an opinion that could be wrong, because of the “experts” who never actually answer those issues.
This morning, he finally gave a more detailed response to my query about Obama’s successes, and rather than trying to my response into another blogger’s comment section, it seemed appropriate to offer a post here rebutting my learned friend’s opinions.
BiW….
On to Obama’s successes (including a list of what I see to be his failures at the end). I suspect you will not agree with any of the successes I list. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. There is no objective standard on most of these – and we have no historical perspective.
I take issue with the false premise that you begin with, that being that there can be no objective measure of success. Success, like every other word has a definition, and to define something is to clearly declare its meaning. To say that a word that has a clear meaning, several of them, in fact, is somehow incapable of being objectively measured is sophistry, plain and simple. But before I begin my rebuttal in earnest, I will set forth the definition of “success”, so that we can be clear about our expectations.
From the Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language:
Success: 1. The favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors;
2. the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like;
3. a successful performance or achievement;
4. a person or a thing that is successful.
Note also that we are merely 13 months into his term – so much of this remains a work in progress.
Wow. I cannot tell you how disappointing this particular walk-back of expectation is after all the “The First 100 Days” hype we were treated to every single one of those first 100 days by MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, etc…
Here goes:
1) Obama has symbolically broken the racial glass ceiling. He has empowered a huge segment of our society – a group who in fact felt that the American dream did not apply to them. He has given a sense of hope to the disenfranchised. Go ahead and scoff at this – but believe me, it is real and it is important. This is one reason I am so resentful of those who seek to take Obama down for mere political gain. You may have already seen my blog post on the topic: http://hippieprofessor.com/2010/02/10/ahhh-sarah-about-that-hopey-changey-thing/
Really? I thought that Billy Jeff was the nation’s very first African-American President?
He has not empowered anyone, and any sense of hope that he might have offered was the cruelest kind of illusion.
There has been no explosion of minority entrepreneurial activity. The black single mom living in the ghetto with her three kids relying on welfare under Bush is still living in the same place and still relying on welfare for a living under Obama. If there is a difference, it is that more Americans, ones who don’t want to be dependent upon government now find themselves in reduced circumstances and relying on unemployment extensions to keep paying some of their bills. There is no growth in opportunity to take control of one’s own destiny and cast of the shackles of government dependency. Indeed, the cornerstone of his plan to fundamentally change our country has been to offer even more dependency in the offensive usurpation of power that is the health care take over plan.
What hope has he offered? Now that we have a black President, is it a hope that blacks will finally “come into their own” and take a larger leadership role in government because of his being elected President? I think that is very insulting to every “person of color” who worked their way into positions of power on their own accord and by measurable, concrete achievement. However, after decades of being called Uncle Toms and worse by a self-appointed African-American leadership for not staying on the modern-day plantation and accepting the prevailing political philosophy, people like Justice Thomas, Dr. Rice, or Thomas Sowell either have the good grace to let such assertions go unchallenged, or are too busy actually doing what they do with skill and intellect to bother speaking against this mirage. Certainly such a belief continues to mistake equality of opportunity with equality of ability.
Or perhaps you were speaking of the Hope his candidacy offered to white liberals who don’t just hold close to a race guilt that they do not deserve, but actually cling to it as an article of faith? Certainly these people were instrumental in this historic candidacy, and such irrationalism would be necessary to elect a person so undeserving of the position.
I can see the color coming to your cheeks, and the OUTRAGE!111!! building behind your eyes. Take a breath and ask yourself this question: “Would I have cast my vote for a white man with the same or similar record?” Obama is a supposedly brilliant man, yet we don’t know what his grades were at Occidental College or at Harvard. We know his opponent’s class rank. We know what kind of grades his predecessor got, and Al Gore’s grades for that matter.
What did he do for a living beforehand? He was a ‘community organizer’ and sometimes law lecturer. But what does that mean? He certainly wasn’t going to tell us that it means coaching organizations on new and better ways to work against the government, or lecturing to students about what a deeply flawed instrument the Constitution is because it provided no means to accomplish the aims of social justice a/k/a wealth redistribution.
Where did he distinguish himself in politics? What ideas or issues were so important to him that he put something…anything on the line in defense of them? He gave a nice speech at the Democratic Convention years prior, and voted ‘present’ in the Senate most of the time. Before that, when in the Illinois State Senate, he found it important to stand against palliative comfort care for children with the temerity to survive their mother’s attempts to murder them. I can’t think of very many serious candidates in years before with similarly sparse resume’s who rated real consideration for the office. It certainly didn’t measure up to his opponent’s curriculum vitae, which reflected achievement, accomplishment, and sacrifice, not just for select subgroups of the country, but for us all, despite the fact I have disagreements with the various issues he has chosen to make a stand on, such as campaign finance, and illegal immigration.
You, and so many like you expose an unhealthy fascination with race, when you show that you are willing to elect a person carrying a paper-thin resume, and vague promises of hope and change because you find the historic achievement to be so necessary that you cannot wait for someone with both the correct racial pedigree and a demonstrated ability and character for the job (and speaking against even comfort care for the most innocent and defenseless among us is NOT the kind of character required for the leader of the free world). And it so blinds you legitimate criticisms that you are willing to dismiss real and logical disagreements as criticism for “mere political gain”, which you deem as offensive, and I suspect, inherently unacceptable. I don’t know what country you grew up in, but I would call your attention to the first real Presidential campaign between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, and the years intervening, when there was a vile vitriol between the two camps that was all about “political gain”, and it consisted not just of different political philosophies, but slanderous filth of the most unimaginable kind. The Chicago Messiah™ has so far had it much easier than his immediate two predecessors, both in scrutiny from the press, and criticism by political opponents and interest groups, and neither of their critics were continually savaged with the politically correct attempt to shut them up with the hysterical cries of “Racism!11!!!”, which has become the textbook response by people who have no desire to honestly address criticism.
2) He has stabilized the economy at a time when we might well have made a tailspin into a second great depression. You will scoff. Seriously – can you honestly claim that the economy would be in better shape right now without the stimulus? Had GM and Chrysler and AIG failed we would have seen a massive cascade of business failures and unemployment would be far far far higher than it is now. I have said it a billion times – in economics we don’t get a control group. Wish we did – because I know I would be right.
I don’t recall him “saving the economy”. In fact, I’m pretty sure that it was his predecessor who peddled the intellectually bankrupt concept of “breaking the rules of the free market system in order to save it.” Yes, your messiah was involved, but he only came to the TARP table reluctantly…after basically saying “If you need me, call me.” That was hardly the act of someone who was interested in the job, or the effect of the economy on the American people.
As for the spendulous, while it has benefitted a lot of people in government jobs (i.e. people who don’t produce anything that contributes to economic growth), I can say that we would be better. When there was 6.4 Billion Dollars spent in Congressional Districts that don’t exist (there’s a story for an uncritical Fourth Estate to pursue…unless it would be raaaacist to do so.), unemployment that went well above what we were promised that it would, and lots of signs touting invisible projects funded by the bill, and an enormous bill that necessarily has to fall on to the backs of my children, no, I can’t say that we are better off. In fact, for me to do so would be a silly as touting a belief in the ridiculous and unprovable metric of “Millions of jobs saved or created”.
3) BTW – saving GM and Chrysler – at least for now – was a big thing. I suspect you will claim it was illegal and unconstitutional. I tend to think it wasn’t – but as you have pointed out I don’t have a law degree. Now we will actually see the Chevy Volt – and with Toyota in disarray the US may even to be able to catch up in the race for green technology. Yeah – I know – not important to you.
Hmmm. I guess I’ll start with a simple question: Do you believe in private property? If your answer to that question is “yes”, then I’d like to know what that concept means to you. If private property means that something is truly the property of them what owns it and pays the bills due on it, then it is not a legitimate or legal act for government to step in, take it over, screw over preferred creditors…private parties who took a risk in granting these companies additional capital in exchange for collateral so that they knew exactly what they were risking in making the loans…in favor of unsecured creditors who played a large part in making the entities fail economically. Put another way, government had neither the right or authority to take over the corporations, ignore established bankruptcy laws, strong-arm collaterized creditors, and then essentially give the corporations to the very parties that contributed to their downfall (i.e. the UAW) with their inflexible approach and sense of entitlement to a much higher standard of living than virtually every other class of manufacturing worker currently employed in this country.
I care about this more than you can imagine. I grew up in the Flint suburbs, in a family that has always driven Chryslers, and when I reached adulthood, I tended to favor GM. These workers were the parents, aunts, uncles, and grandparents of my friends. They were my neighbors. We drove American through the 70’s and 80’s, when driving American wasn’t cool. I have a Chevy and a Chrysler in my driveway right now. I was looking forward to the hope of picking up a used Dodge Challenger in a few years, just because the idea of owning such a sleek Gaia-raping, deep-throated street predator filled me with such awe and wonder that it almost made me giggle with delight. That isn’t going to happen now, and if I am going to stick by my committment to drive American, I have to look at Ford when the time comes to replace my beloved Impala, simply because I have no intention to reward the bad behavior of any of the parties involved…managment, union, or government.
However, a more important consideration is this: GM is now basically a union-government joint venture. During and after the restructuring, they received even more of our money to stay afloat. No steps have been taken to control legacy costs, or even to address incredibly generous union contracts, and as long as Uncle Sugar (really you and me) keep writing the checks, the unions have no incentive to make their end of the business more competitive. They will continue to spend our money for as long as they possibly can.
As for AIG and the rest, it was patently wrong for the government, which already played a role in the economy as regulator, to step in and become a participant. Business succeeds in generating wealth not just for its owners, but for the national economy at large because it has a better idea, or can be more cost efficient than its competitors. Competitors that can’t or won’t control their costs, and/or put out inferior products should fail because of competitors that accomplish this better. Ford did this better than GM or Chrysler, and as a result, had every right to expect to be rewarded for doing so with the greater market share that comes when a competitor fails. And while it has continued to do much better since turning down the sugar that Uncle peddled, it now is in competition with the same entity that regulates the market, and its practices and processes.
The government, which already had enormous regulatory power over financial markets, and had instituted policies such as the Community Reinvestment Act, which required banks and other regulated lenders to make bad business decisions in the form of risky loans, decided to that it was appropriate to step in and pick winners and losers when the decade of looting, overseen by prominent (and well-paid) Democrats such as Jaime Gorelick and Franklin Raines, could no longer be concealed and the time came to pay the bill. We paid gobs and buckets of money to cover bad loans that we never should have made in the first place through the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of the home finance world, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and then we decided that firms that took part in this ongoing fraud such as Bear Sterns were not worthy of saving, but Goldman Sachs (Turbo Tax Timmy’s old gang) and AIG HAD to be saved at any cost…which means at any cost to the taxpayer. Interference with private property rights, circumventing the law, competing in the same markets it also regulates, and spending piles and piles of other people’s money on these dubious investments is not something that should be celebrated. It should be severely sanctioned with convictions, jail time, restitution, and if all else fails, tar and feathers.
4) He has articulated a moderate vision of health care reform. Despite dishonest conservative commentary(fueled by a desperate insurance industry) It is far from a progressive position – a progressive position would entail single payer or at least a very robust public option. An honest politician on the right would find a lot to like in the bills now on the table – yet they seek to to score political points instead – and they disgust me. See my section on failures below for commentary on Obama’s failure to get this done.
It isn’t up to the government to provide health care for people, and that includes Medicaid and Medicare. I would make an exception for the care that the VA renders because I believe that injuries suffered by those willing to give their lives to preserve our way of life should be repaid in such a fashion, and because the injuries were suffered in the service of the Republic, we assumed that duty.
Medicaid and Medicare prove that government cannot efficiently manage such a process. The billions of dollars in waste and fraud and decades worth of IOUs for tax receipts looted for other entitlement spending are ample testimony to that. There are other considerations also, first and foremost being that such an undertaking is not Constitutional. I know from our previous exchanges on this subject that you want to believe otherwise, and will seize upon any argument you feel supports your decision (the welfare clause, the fact that Medicare has never been declared Unconstitutional, etc, etc, etc.) but the fact remains that there simply is no Constitutional authority making it the government’s right and duty to see to it that we have to provide any health insurance for everyone, and the idea that government can impose financial penalties and prison time for my failure to purchase a plan it approves of is antithetical to every principle this nation was founded on. If health care becomes the purview of the government, then what health care I can receive by necessity also becomes the purview of the government. Just as the power to tax a thing is the power to destroy a thing, the power to control health care is the power to deny health care. The power to deny health care is the power to kill. I shouldn’t have to point to the proof available to all who look, such as the NHS in Britain denying breast cancer drugs that work to breast cancer patients because they cost too much, or the old Soviet trick of declaring political opponents and critics to be “mentally ill” and institutionalizing them in wretched facilities with the expectation that they die there, isolated and silenced. “That’s extreme!!!111!!!” you say. “Perhaps,” I say, “but at the same time, I’m not inclined to leave my physical well-being in the hands of people so unprincipled that they continue to subvert and ignore the inviolate law of the land, and act in contravention to the will of the recognized source of our unalienable rights.”
But my insurance company can deny me a drug or a treatment now, you say. You are correct, but my decision to buy health insurance is just that: my decision. If my employer provides it to me, then it is something my employer chose to provide to me. Nothing is stopping me from shopping for and purchasing my own policy right now. If we get Obamacare sans the “public option”[for now…Bwarney Fwanks was absolutely correct that it is the next inevitable step], I don’t get to chose not to have a plan…a choice made by many young people because they are young and in good health. I don’t get the plan of my choosing. I get to choose from the plans that government will approve. This is a wonderful opportunity for graft and kickbacks, and will still lead to the death of private insurance because a publically funded alternative has NO INCENTIVE to operate like a business. If the money runs out, they simply charge the taxpayer more, and the private companies have to compete with an entity that has its hand in our collective pocket every time they spend too much. If I didn’t understand the underlying belief held dear by most liberals that people should be relieved of the burden of making their own choices and the consequences of the choices that they do make, though the power of the government, that they, as the ones who know what’s best for us, always plan to control, I would say that it is an unusual position for someone who believes in freedom of choice, as long as it includes the right of a mother to murder their offspring.
5) He is taking strides to end “don’t ask, don’t tell” – he should have done it earlier, and it will take too long in the end – but it is the right thing to do.
Why is it the right thing to do? I have yet to hear a logical explanation why we as a nation have a vested interest in upholding and supporting the notion of gay rights. Indeed, most of the arguments that I do hear could just as easily be employed my NAMBLA members or people who like having sex with farm animals. Come to me with scientific proof of an immutable condition, or admit that if we accept the current reasoning, there is a great deal of behavior, including behavior that liberals find offensive, that we will have to legitimize for the exact same reasons later.
6) He has, as promised, given a tax cut to the vast majority of working Americans. That they apparently don’t realize this is testimony to the power of the conservative press. You can be damned sure that had McCain lowered middle-class taxes to a similar degree FOX would be shouting it from the mountaintops.
Allowing the Bush tax cuts to sunset raised taxes for everyone. Manipulating the withholding tables to give an average of $13 of the normal American’s pay back to him in his weekly paycheck, while making no change in the actual tax rates that dictate the amount of taxes that they will pay for the year is not a real tax cut. Of course, most Americans won’t really pick up on this until next year, and the continued lack of any movement by members of both parties will create a situation were more and more middle class Americans will be hammered by the AMT, but that won’t be honestly reported if the Chicago Messiah™ gets to continue lowering the definition of who is actually “rich” in America. By then, his strategy of fomenting class envy and generally pushing the various doctrines that comprise The Politics of Lowered Expectations™ will really be taking hold, as the entitlement class grows more restless in its greed, and the paying class grows weary of the increasing levels of confiscation of its life energy imposed on it from a ballooning government. On the Mark Twain scale, your statement isn’t just a lie, its a damn lie.
7) He acted boldly and decisively with the Somali pirate situation. Before you scoff, just think what you would be saying had that rescue attempt failed. Why – you would be saying the same things you say about Carter’s failure to rescue the Iran hostages (though of course that was a much bigger undertaking).
I’m scoffing because his action was neither “bold” or “decisive”. The Maersk Alabama was hijacked on April 8, 2009. The crew themselves took the ship back later that day. The US dispatched response arrived the following day, but the captain of the Alabama was not freed until the 12th…after Obama sent FBI negotiators to talk to the pirates, and dithered for days about letting the Navy do its job and dispatch the pirates with extreme prejudice. I realize that in academia, bold and decisive action is rapidly criticizing a decision made by a conservative politician or denouncing a state government for reducing the number of taxpayer dollars that a legislature will be sending to institutions of higher indoctrination within their borders in that budget year, but in this case bold and decisive action would have been immediately unleashing the SEALs to kill the pirates and rescue the captain if possible, and then to bomb the pirates’ land based support into rubble, and capturing and hanging any pirates who subsequently attempted to hijack commercial shipping in the area.
He has made an unprecedented outreach to the Islamic world. No doubt you will think this was a mistake – a sign of weakness perhaps. You fail to realize how badly our image has fallen in the rest of the world after Bush. Something needs to be done about that – this is a start.
I know. Actually acting after stacks of resolutions against Iraq piled up for violating the otherwise ineffective directives of the “international authorities” and many of our allies profited on the side from the Oil-for-Food program while helping a ruthless dictator to rearm and continue to attack people that “international authorities” continually told him to keep away from was pretty reprehensible. After all, it is bad form to shed light on and shut off your allies’ graft personal enrichment programs that are in direct contravention of their public statements made in front of cameras and reporters. Its kind of like waiting to tell your wife that you’re sterile until after she announces that she’s pregnant.
I do support his current program of reaching out to jihadis with Predator drones and missile strikes, as well as sharing real time intelligence with governments that actually make an effort to root out such vipers in their midst, as is currently occurring in some middle east nations like Yemen. Unlike you, I have no illusion that this will somehow translate in to lots of fluffy bunny and skittle crapping unicorn sessions with the various members of the Islamic world, but also unlike you, I have no reason to see the approbation and approval of people who have demonstrated a willingness time and time again to kill anyone who doesn’t think like they do, which means most of the western world.
9) He made a good choice for his first Supreme Court appointment. I stand by that. I knew what “wise Latina” meant the moment I heard the phrase – and I am saddened that she had to backtrack on that and pretend it meant something other than it did. Yes – we all know what you think here.
Yes, but I still don’t know why you think it was a good choice. I suspect, based on our exchanges, but I do not know. You simply keep saying that it was a good choice, and frankly, that reads much like some of her more notorious decisions.
[I have omitted the rest of his comment because he started on his list of Obama failures, and while I don’t agree with much of his underlying rationale, I also didn’t see cause for disappointment in these “failures”.]
What a list of empty braggadocio from Hippie, whom I like. I’ll take one exception with you BIC and it is a small one – I have given Obama credit for allowing the best military in the world to remove the heads of three thugs. Okay, Obama gets credit.
Just a little to add to your excellent conclusions and assistance in debunking Hippie’s hyperbole. First, if TARP was indeed a success, Obama had little to do with it. So if it successful, I assume that Hippie and the closet racist Rutherford will be giving credit to Bush, Paulson and Bernacke for saving us from the Depression?
Hippie should ask the Chrysler bondholders who were cheated out of their investments how successful the Chrysler takeover by Obamament was. Add to the fact, Chrysler is still operating in the red even after the bailout and that is an awfully low bar for success.
Perhaps the emptiest of the successes Hippie listed was his rationale for the stimulus success. Unemployment has actually increased 2% since the stimulus inception, underemployed and estimated 3% more, probably setting the real unemployment rate closer to 15-18% depending on which economist you believe. Debt was increased 1.8 trillion during Obama’s first twelve months, averaging about $6K for each American citizen in perpetuity. While the average paycheck may have indeed increased $13 a paycheck, you need not be an expert at math to recognize a large negative rate of return for all Americans who actually pay federal taxes. What Hippie didn’t mention is that if the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire this year, taxes will actually increase even taking the “huge” tax cut many Americans received.
Obama’s idea of revising health care has been rejected by a large majority of Americans. If success is considered simply raising it as an issue, then I assume that Hippie will give large due to George Bush, who tried unsuccessfully to address the Social Security shortcomings.
Obama’s supposed outreach to the middle east, whatever that has been, has actually weakened our position. Iran, Yemen and Afghanistan are bordering on chaos and much more threatening than one year ago. What is not talked about much on MSNBC and other stations Hippie watches for “fairness” is how much the Obama Admin has actually hurt our relationship with Israel. During a recent survey, 96% of Israelis actually felt our relationship stronger under George Bush. The largest number of Israelis do not trust Obama.
The rest of Hippie’s points are opinion and not based on fact. We all are entitled to our opinions and we will see come November.
Tex,
I don’t take away from Obama for finally allowing our Navy to dispatch the pirates. My contention is the way that he did so was neither bold or decisive, as our learned friend maintains. I actually think that Obama didn’t want to have them whacked. I think he wanted to talk them into surrendering the Captain, and finally resorted to letting the Navy give a pirate’s death to the pirates because it finally became apparent to him that he wasn’t going to talk them out of their life of crime.
I was just taking pity on the pathetic claims of success by Hippie Professor about Obama’s dismal first year.
I was so hard pressed to dream a success for Obama myself, I figured I had to give the schmuck credit for something besides teleprompter reading, stuck in perpetual campaign mode, and frightening the bejesus out of downtown Manhattan as his shellac haired wife and kids took pics out their window of ground zero from the taxpayer funded commercial aircraft.
OH, OH! I know one. He left Robert Gates, a Bush holdover, in place explaining the continuing Predator missile strikes.
BiW says…..
I actually think that Obama didn’t want to have them whacked. I think he wanted to talk them into surrendering the Captain, and finally resorted to letting the Navy give a pirate’s death to the pirates because it finally became apparent to him that he wasn’t going to talk them out of their life of crime.
And on what basis (other than a pre-existing bias against anything Obama does) do you make that claim?
— hp
BIC I must say I am impressed by a number of your posts content and presentation. Two thumbs up for sure. I liked this one and the one titled Unfit and Injudicious a lot. Keep up the good work.
Hey Tex on a side note…First Hello,hope all is well. Second Rutherford actually raised the increased Predator strikes thing as a positive for Obama. I countered with a link from The Nation,Pakistans big daily,that the Paks don’t quite see it that way.
You have so much more patience than I do.
I would’ve just skinned the little fella, just tossed his carcass back in the lake.
All Fucking Liberals Must Hang
I like your style. Succinct and to the point. 😆
Why waste words when we all know this is the inevitable outcome required?
All Fucking Liberals Must Hang
Gosh Dick – pleased to meet you too and nice to know that you are living up to your name…..
— hippirprof
BiW,
I am sorry that I was unable to get here right away. As you have seen, I am busy outing myself as a heretic over on my own blog. Perhaps I will take a breather here – at least at the moment it seems downright calm by comparison….
I will not have a large enough block of time to respond to everything you write in a single post. Instead, I will do it bit by bit. I hope I will eventually get to all of it.
First – I do agree that there are objective measures of success. However, I also know that in the present discussions we will have great difficulty invoking those. On economic matters, for example, the success of an economic policy must be judged in reference to what might have happened where a different policy in place. In the lab we can easily evaluate that by using a control group or groups. In the real world we don’t get that luxury. We cannot say with certainly that a particular economic policy is a success or a failure because of course we do not know what would have happened under a different policy. All we can do is offer informed opinion.
If we can’t agree on that issue there probably isn’t much point in discussing anything else…..
Now – on to the major points:
I claim that Obama’s election has broken the racial glass ceiling and empowered a group of the disenfranchised. You counter:
He has not empowered anyone, and any sense of hope that he might have offered was the cruelest kind of illusion. There has been no explosion of minority entrepreneurial activity. The black single mom living in the ghetto with her three kids relying on welfare under Bush is still living in the same place and still relying on welfare.
Seriously, you don’t talk to black people very often do you, BiW? I do. I can’t count the number who have expressed sentiment to the effect “I never believed that the American Dream really applied to me…” or something similar. On the eve of the election I remember many black friends refusing to get their hopes up – sure that somehow somebody would use nefarious means and manage to snatch away Obama’s success.
Like it or not, many people in the black community have suffered from a cultural form of learned helplessness. They have not believed that success was really possible. Learned helplessness is an insidious thing – it eats away at the motivation to succeed.
Most American children, at some point in their childhood, say that they want to be President. In black communities the answer has all too often been “you can’t be honey, because you are black.” That answer isn’t available anymore. Obama serves as an example that indeed success is possible.
Scoff at it if you like, but I assure you that it is a big deal and it means something in the black community.
I am amazed, BTW, by your arrogant comment that welfare mothers are still on welfare… you expect this to turn around overnight? In a recession? It may take a generation before we see the real effects here – as the first generation of children grow up into adulthood with the knowledge that indeed you CAN be whatever you want to be.
You go on to ask:
Take a breath and ask yourself this question: “Would I have cast my vote for a white man with the same or similar record?”
Damn right I would have – particularly with an idiot like Palin on the ticket. I share many of Obama’s views – with HRC right at the top.
But – let me answer that a bit differently.
Did Obama’s race factor into my vote?
Yes – I suspect it probably did.
I am sure Rush and Beck and all sorts of other fools would call me a racist for admitting that. Perhaps even you…. You would be wrong.
I believe that the disenfranchisement of the black community is a serious social ill in our country. I viewed – and still view – Obama’s election as a step toward ending that disenfranchisement. Voting for someone because you believe they will help solve a serious problem in America is certainly not racist. Some might even call it Patriotic.
That is all I have time for now. I am sure you will enjoy the feast I have set before you….
— hp
Yes, it is great that Obama broke the racial ceiling , and the sense in the African American community that they too can achieve anything and break the cycke of learned helplessness is indeed a grand achievememt. But what has he accomplished? What about the jobs? What about Iran? What about weakening our position around the world in the face of tyrants and thugs? What about our economic well being?
And if that isn’t enough, how is it that a man who has a majority in the House and (until last month) a bulletproof majority in the Senate could not get healthcare or cap & trade, both of which have been staples of the leftist agenda since forever, through?
And you speak about breaking the disenfranchisement in the minority community. What is unemployment since 1/20/09 in that demographic? What concrete steps have he achieved to help that community, save inspiration? Hell, a very prominent African American figure has admitted that while he too voted for Obama based on skin color, he has found him lacking since then. Again, inspiration is all well and good, but that doesn’t pay the bills.
Voting for someone based on skin color is just as racist as voting against someone based on skin color. Period.
You can do mental gymnastics if you like to justify it in your head, but that doesn’t change that fact.
The Black community is a victim of the Black community. It isn’t some case of Stockholm syndrome going on here, there has been a calculated and intentional effort made to continue to play and foster the “you a victim” or “woe is me” mentality. This is almost always lead by the Dem party.
That’s what I can’t understand, the Dems as a party have done more harm and damage to the Black community than any other institution, yet like Lemmings off a cliff, they continuously vote Dem.
Maybe it is Stockholm syndrome…
gorilla said…. Voting for someone based on skin color is just as racist as voting against someone based on skin color. Period.
Gorilla, I am calling BS. Voting for someone of a particular skin color because you believe that the person’s skin color will position them to bring about important positive social change is absolutely NOT racist. If you think for a second that a white person can serve as a good role model to the black community, you are indeed delusional.
That’s what I can’t understand, the Dems as a party have done more harm and damage to the Black community than any other institution, yet like Lemmings off a cliff, they continuously vote Dem.
Perhaps you need to ask yourself why the GOP isn’t more attractive to blacks instead. Hint: Roll up your sleeves and go into black neighborhoods and become community organizers and show that you actually care.
— hp
And on what basis (other than a pre-existing bias against anything Obama does) do you make that claim?
By dispatching the FBI to spend a few days to “negotiate” with the pirates.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? They’re Pirates.
They do it because they have nothing to lose, they do it because they like the lifestyle, they do it because the only order they will accept comes from the fist of someone stronger. They have no interest in “negotiation”, and only a liberal mindset, which refuses to call things what they are, would even begin to think that there is anything to be gained from treating such an act like something it isn’t.
One of the Navy’s original duties was to combat piracy, and it wasn’t done with negotiations. Success was achieved with relentless pursuit, and making an immediate and final example of those who let themselves be captured alive. And it was an outstanding deterent.
BiW says, regarding pirates:
They have no interest in “negotiation”, and only a liberal mindset, which refuses to call things what they are, would even begin to think that there is anything to be gained from treating such an act like something it isn’t.
I suppose you also think we should send the SWAT team in as the first response to any domestic hostage situation?
The first priority of any hostage situation – foreign or domestic – is to save the lives of the hostages. Going in with guns blazing certainly feels tough and macho – but of course it also puts the hostages at greater risk. The SWAT team is the last resort.
Sheesh – this isn’t a “liberal” position – it is just plain common sense. Am I to take it as the conservative position that it is OK for the hostages to die as long as we give the pirates what they deserve?
— hp
In black communities the answer has all too often been “you can’t be honey, because you are black.”
In black communities the answer is ‘where my check’? It is that attitude, the bigotry of low expectations, the democrat plantation of welfare, and the dismantling of the black family, that the idea of reaching for the stars – on their own – never even enters their mind. Daddy government is going to give it to them.
Many a black has told me that affirmative action is the worst thing to happen to blacks.
beasn said….. In black communities the answer is ‘where my check’?
Wow…. I really think I should learn to ignore racist statements – but I just can’t walk away from this crap.
There are more whites on welfare than blacks. Do you wish to imply that none of them say “where my check”?
— hp
hippieprof says: “There are more whites on welfare than blacks” What does that prove? There are many more whites OFF welfare that blacks. Does that prove blacks are lazy? No. What are the percentages? You’re not a math professor, are you?
You also asked: “I suppose you also think we should send the SWAT team in as the first response to any domestic hostage situation?” And if we did that for a year, how many domestic hostage situations would we have in the year afterwards? Or to answer your question simply: “Yes!” (Key in on the word “hostage” here professor – SWAT is the only answer to any hostage situation.) Negotiations are for mergers, not crime scenes. You said: “Am I to take it as the conservative position that it is OK for the hostages to die as long as we give the pirates what they deserve?” No, but it is our position to risk it a few times so that criminals don’t do it in the future. Actions and consequences, here, professor. Oh, wait – you’re a liberal – you try hard to shield people from the consequences of their actions.
I’d respond to more of your drivel, but I have to get back to work to pay for those tax INCREASES I’ve had.
agile_dog said…. What does that prove?
It proves nothing, obviously. Beasn’s original post left the strong implication that only blacks would say “where my check” (sic). I was simply asking if we are to assume that the large number of whites on welfare would or would not make a similar statement. Care to address that?
SWAT is the only answer to any hostage situation
Wow – and how many dead hostages would it take before it became clear how bad that strategy would be? You think we would have less hostage taking if the SWAT team went in first every time? I doubt it. People who take hostages are generally not concerned bout their own survival in the first place.
I’d respond to more of your drivel, but I have to get back to work to pay for those tax INCREASES I’ve had.
Congratulations. You must indeed be in the upper income brackets. So am I – except I recognize that one of the reasons I have been successful is that my country has provided me with so many opportunities. I don’t resent having to share a bit of my wealth.
— hp
how is that racist, especially when people line up explicitly asking for a check from “Obama’s stash”
Beasn’s original post left the strong implication that only blacks would say “where my check” (sic). I was simply asking if we are to assume that the large number of whites on welfare would or would not make a similar statement. Care to address that?
It did no such thing. You just jump to conclusions because you refuse to address the welfare plantation and low expectations and your obvious disdain for someone with black skin as being inferior, thus needing someone else to prop up their feelings and ambitions.
I lived in the inner city, still have friends and family there, and heard that sort of thing all of the time.
I taught many a black child and held them to the same standard as I would any child. And guess what hippy (why on earth would anyone have such a negative handle?), they have BRAINS! It was a parochial school and their parents struggled to put them through in order to keep them out of the shit for public schools, because they wanted them to learn and to think on their own. Imagine that.
As for the democrat plantation – nothing new of course –
Rep. Joseph Rainey:
“You gentlemen on the Democrat side of the House have voted against all the …amendments of the Constitution and the civil rights laws enforcing the same. Why did you do it? I answer, because those measures had a tendency to give to the poor Negro his just rights..and give him freedom of speech, freedom of action, and the opportunity of education, that he might elevate himself to the dignity of manhood. Now you come to us and say that you are our best friends. We would that we could look upon you as such. We would that your votes recorded…from day to day could only demonstrate it. But your votes, your actions, and the constant cultivation of your cherished prejudices prove to the Negroes of the entire country that the Democrats are in opposition to them; and would have no foothold here…The Democrat Party may woo us, they court us and try to get us to worship at their shrine, but I will tell the gentlemen that we are Republicans by instinct, and we will be Republicans as long as God will allow our proper senses to hold sway over us.”
Frederick Douglas agreed –
“Each colored voter of the State should say in Scripture phrase, “may my hand forget it’s cunning and my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth” [Psalm 137:5-6] if ever I raise my voice or give my vote for the nominees of the Democrat Party”.
Alas, a hundred years after those words were spoken, they lost their proper sense and their tongues are cleaved to the roofs of their mouths. Their votes were finally bought, the shackles were clamped back on, and look what has happened to black communities.
Booker T. Washington –
“There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.”
I think that would include white liberals for whatever perverted reasons they do it.
*looks at the hippy*
beasn said (first time around): in black communities the answer is ‘where my check’?
beasn said (second time around): I taught many a black child and held them to the same standard as I would any child. And guess what hippy (why on earth would anyone have such a negative handle?), they have BRAINS! It was a parochial school and their parents struggled to put them through in order to keep them out of the shit for public schools, because they wanted them to learn and to think on their own. Imagine that.
Those seem like irreconcilable statements to me. The first is blatant racism at its worst. The second I would agree with – I too have taught many black students and I know from experience that they have brains.
Which is it, beasn?
— hp
racism? Nice to see you retreat to that old trope when your Great Society is proven to be a failure. As if the bazillions we pured down the drain weren’t enough, right?
And speaking of racism, take a look at these bigots on display.
I don’t resent having to share a bit of my wealth.
Then pay my share as well, you fucking dickbag hippie asshole. I fucking work my fucking ass off to pay for myself as well as the fucking mooches and thieves who fucking steal from me in order to flush my hard fucking earned money down the toilet of Big Digs, shitty schools, and reducing my standard of living.
Oh, and guess what, Hippie? The more of MY FUCKING MONEY that I fucking get to keep means that I can hire another person to work for me, to work on my house, to clean my cars. And if I don’t have as much of MY FUCKING MONEY around, I cannot hire these people. How the fuck am I supposed to pay for their fucking salary if I don’t have the money to do so? Am I supposed to reduce my return on my investment? Fuck. And. No!
Oh,a nd one last missive for hippie:
go ahead and trot out the racism meme. I dare you. No, I fucking double dog fucking dare you.
hippieprof: “You think we would have less hostage taking if the SWAT team went in first every time? I doubt it. People who take hostages are generally not concerned bout their own survival in the first place.” Then why did they take hostages? They could just fight/attack – no they wanted a shield.
And this crap: “Wow – and how many dead hostages would it take before it became clear how bad that strategy would be?” Umm – how about all of them all the time? Here’s one of the impossible control groups you like to talk about: Send in the SWAT first time, every time, for a year. And then see who is stupid enough to take a hostage again. What would be the survival rate of hostages? What would be the survival rate of hostage takers? We don’t know, but any claim of 100% fatality of hostages is bogus – SWAT is better than that. It would never happen. But I believe criminals would get the message real fast – you take a hostage, you don’t likely get a trail, you get DEAD. It’s called deterent, professor. Works like a charm for human nature.
Eddie the Bear said….
Then pay my share as well, you fucking dickbag hippie asshole. I fucking work my fucking ass off to pay for myself as well as the fucking mooches and thieves who fucking steal from me in order to flush my hard fucking earned money down the toilet of Big Digs, shitty schools, and reducing my standard of living.
Oh, and guess what, Hippie? The more of MY FUCKING MONEY that I fucking get to keep means that I can hire another person to work for me, to work on my house, to clean my cars. And if I don’t have as much of MY FUCKING MONEY around, I cannot hire these people. How the fuck am I supposed to pay for their fucking salary if I don’t have the money to do so? Am I supposed to reduce my return on my investment? Fuck. And. No!
Wow – BiW – classy bunch you have here. Thank you inviting me over. I will certainly remember to stop by anytime I want intelligent, rational conversation about the issues.
— hp
Forget the presentation and answer the question.
Actually, if you can look past his anger on this topic (which I share, BTW), he has a valid point which you do not address.
Being compelled to pay taxes to a government, for essential services for all (infrastructure, maintaining a standing military for defense, law enforcement, fire services, the courts) make sense. It is consistent with the very concepts that underlie government and society, and allows those to who are so inclined to “give something back” the freedom to chose how and when they will do so.
The idea that “giving something back” is equivalent to being compelled by force of law to give it to government which decides how much, when, and to whom and in what fashion is absurd and offensive, as is the notion that because you feel that it is the right way to do so, that it is your prerogative to impose this scheme on everyone else.
Our earnings are the result of our efforts. If I make twice as much as some one else doing the same job, good for me. Maybe that eflects more effort, more training, more skill, or maybe just better negotiation skills. Whateever the reason, it reflects my efforts and my life energy, I don’t get to add hours in the day or years to my life to make up for what you would have government take from me to give to others, and even if I did, you would simply take more. It is a finite resource, and while it is mine to “give”, it is not yours to take, so that you may “give”.
One of the inherent weaknesses in leftist philosophy is the idea that we cannot “legislate morality”, but we can mandate “fairness”, which at its heart is a moral decision, and invariably requires the taking by government of what it did not create. I realize that this may not be visible to you do to the mote in your eye, but this really is something you should give some thought to answering, because this is THE polarizing issue in this country.
BiW….
I hope to get to round two of my comments on your comments later tonight. On the eve of the health care summit I will probably concentrate on that. Some quick responses to your last post:
Our earnings are the result of our efforts. If I make twice as much as some one else doing the same job, good for me. Maybe that eflects more effort, more training, more skill, or maybe just better negotiation skills. Whateever the reason, it reflects my efforts and my life energy,
Excuse me? You really can’t be that naive. Certainly effort does pay off – but you seem to be suggesting that is all there is. It also pays to be male and white with good connections.
Case in point: I went to high school and used to hang with a guy who went on to become a self-made millionaire and a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. In fact, you probably know who he is – he is well pretty known in Washington State. Guess what – he wasn’t any smarter and didn’t work any harder than any of the rest of us. What he did have were some family political connections which gave him access to some even more important political connections. Certainly he worked hard – but in the end it is his connections that mattered.
I realize that this may not be visible to you do to the mote in your eye, but this really is something you should give some thought to answering, because this is THE polarizing issue in this country.
You and I can argue about health care and stimulus money and whether that money is well spent – and we probably won’t get anywhere. But – don’t try to claim that liberals are the only one’s who put fat in the budget or run up the deficit. The GOP is great at screaming about the deficit when dems are in power – but somehow manage to forget about all of that when they are in power….
I will be back with more later….
— hp
Which is it, beasn?
It is when people realize that something isn’t working that they move out and on. They realize that it is only themselves, not hippy or Big Daddy telling them otherwise, that they can do it on their own and will be much better off, rather than be permanent victims.
Tell me hippy, why we must all become servants of a few?How does that better mankind when what the Founders of this country put together something that has done just that. When every other country that stresses ‘for the common good’ is mediocre at best.
The individual is the smallest minority. The question is, what is your motivation in not respecting that?
As to this –
Those seem like irreconcilable statements to me. The first is blatant racism at its worst.
I agree. It is racist and horrible to instill that kind of attitude of dependency on anyone.
I keep hearing that Obama is a post-racial President, who has empowered the black community.
So I have a question for Hippie? While I’m sure it a big deal that a black man was elected President for the black community, exactly what has Obama done to heal racial strife? I’m starting to signs of racism that I have witnessed in my life.
Second, what has Obama done to empower black America? More of them are unemployed now than when Obama took office. Unemployment for young black man is now at historically high proportions. Is that racism?
I wonder what white guilt you feel you’ve assuaged by continually focusing on Obama’s race and not his character. Seems to me if anyone is not focused on the premise of King’s message from I have a dream, it might be you.
Tex asked….
Second thing first…. Second, what has Obama done to empower black America? More of them are unemployed now than when Obama took office. Unemployment for young black man is now at historically high proportions. Is that racism?
I have said it before – the empowering effects I am talking about may take a generation to be evident – but it will be worth the wait. No black parent will ever again be able to tell a child they can’t be President because they are black. An entire generation of black children will grow up with a firmer belief in the reality of the American dream. How can you deny that this is powerful and IMPORTANT for ALL Americans?
While I’m sure it a big deal that a black man was elected President for the black community, exactly what has Obama done to heal racial strife? I’m starting to signs of racism that I have witnessed in my life.
Honestly Tex, the strife you are seeing is being stirred up by a$$holes like Limbaugh and Beck. They scream to their millions of listeners that Obama is a racist – and the listeners believe. They are doing it for personal profit and political gain – both Limbaugh and Beck are smart enough to know that the accusations of racism are lies.
A couple of days ago I asked on my blog for some actual solid evidence that Obama is a racist. There are 89 comments on the thread at this moment – I haven’t seen that evidence yet.
I wonder what white guilt you feel you’ve assuaged by continually focusing on Obama’s race and not his character. Seems to me if anyone is not focused on the premise of King’s message from I have a dream, it might be you.
I don’t have a problem with Obama’s character Tex – you do. I have certainly seen a lot of mud thrown at his character. I doesn’t stick.
— hp
Something must be sticking HP. Obama’s strongly disapprove rating is starting to rival George Bush at the end of 2008. Your man has failed miserably and at least 60% of the people are going to prove it come November.
Oh, and count me as one of the many assholes and I don’t even listen to talk radio. It wasn’t differential equations for me to figure out either Obama a blatant cracker hater by the church he attended for twenty years, and the comments made about throwing grandma under the bus when she was the only one that seemed to care about Barry as Big O played CYA during the Wright cover up (completely classless, by the way) or…
A pandering, shameless phony sitting in a church pew to establish political ties and do a little demagoguing on the side as “community activist.”
Obama is a race opportunist, not much different than the most Wholly Rev. Sharpton, playing to whatever the audience represents to enlarge his position. Shameless pandering and sometimes outright lying.
Can’t believe a guy like you Hippie can’t see through smoke and recognize Obama believes himself not just President of the United States, but a transitional ‘messiah’ of change and Caesar.
Gad, I simply can not let my puppy in and concentrate because I am so damn scared he’ll tear something up.
I’ll be back later.
Excuse me? You really can’t be that naive. Certainly effort does pay off – but you seem to be suggesting that is all there is. It also pays to be male and white with good connections.
Excuse me? Surely you can’t be that naive. I’m a white male with a J.D. and an LL.M., and I don’t work for a big law firm, and my odds of ever sitting on the bench are pretty slim because big law firms want to show how diverse they are by hiring racial and gender minorities. I’m ok with that. Having to put up with the PC culture in those firms would end up driving me to quit. But here in Washingtonistan, judicial vacancies are filled by diversity appointments. After they are appointed, they are now incumbents, and the incumbents are rarely turned out.
You might want to play that tune elsewhere.
BiW said: Excuse me? Surely you can’t be that naive. I’m a white male with a J.D. and an LL.M., and I don’t work for a big law firm, and my odds of ever sitting on the bench are pretty slim because big law firms want to show how diverse they are by hiring racial and gender minorities.
Look at what you are saying. In your first post you attributed you successes to your hard work – you said “If I make twice as much as some one else doing the same job, good for me. Maybe that eflects more effort, more training, more skill, or maybe just better negotiation skills.”
But – in this latest response, you blame diversity hiring for the fact you have not achieved something you apparently seek. In Psychology we have a name for that – it is called the “self-serving bias” – it involves taking credit for your accomplishments while blaming outside forces for your failures. Don’t feel bad – everyone does it. You can read more about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
I would certainly agree that diversity hiring has cut into the power of the old-boys club. Don’t fool yourself, though – the club still exists. White males are still paid more than females and blacks doing comparable work.
— hp
Look at what you are saying. In your first post you attributed you successes to your hard work – you said “If I make twice as much as some one else doing the same job, good for me. Maybe that eflects more effort, more training, more skill, or maybe just better negotiation skills.”
No, actually, that wasn’t what I said. What I said was:
“Our earnings are the result of our efforts. If I make twice as much as some one else doing the same job, good for me. Maybe that eflects more effort, more training, more skill, or maybe just better negotiation skills. Whateever the reason, it reflects my efforts and my life energy, I don’t get to add hours in the day or years to my life to make up for what you would have government take from me to give to others, and even if I did, you would simply take more. It is a finite resource, and while it is mine to “give”, it is not yours to take, so that you may “give”.”
This is an explaination of why if you believe in “fairness”, it is patently unfair for good-intentioned people (who just happen to gain power from doing so) to act as if any person’s wages are the government’s to do with as it pleases, especially since it isn’t possible for me to go make more time in which to earn what leftists so willingly take with dubious notions such as “giving something back” or a cockeyed form of “fairness”. But when you ignore the parts that give your excerpt meaning, then it is pretty easy to declare a “self-serving” argument, which is especially convient when you are doing your level best to avoid actually addressing the real issue.
But – in this latest response, you blame diversity hiring for the fact you have not achieved something you apparently seek.
No, actually, I was pointing out that it has closed certain oppotunites to me, not because I am not good enough to do the work, but because my skin is not the right color and I don’t wear a skirt. In private firms, this is acceptable; its their firm, and if they want to confuse diversity with excellence, they are more than welcome to do so; by the same token, I am more than happy to continue to pants them at every opportunity, while they continue to underestimate me because I am a simple country lawyer.
However, when identity politics becomes more important than merit ( i.e. ability and excellence, not seniority and longevity) in filling government positions, we are all diminished, because it becomes more important to meet a racial or gender demographic than it is to find the best person for the job.
I’ll simplify and repeat the question:
“What makes it appropriate for people like you to decide that you want to give something back in the form of a government entitlement, in which we are all forced to participate, rather than really giving something back by donating your time, and your money to causes that you believe in?”
Bonus question: Name for me two government programs that have never expanded, either in scope, or size.
BiW…..
Change of subject for a moment…. I am in the midst of writing a HCR post – partly as a response to you and partly because I want something on my blog on the eve of the summit….
I am not sure what branch of law you practice – though I am pretty sure you don’t do personal injury.
I am curious what you think about Tort Reform? Most people would be surprised to know that I do support reasonable Tort Reform – though figuring out how to do that can be tough. What do you think?
Here is something I wrote on it a while back – it received almost no comments – and the one apparent lawyer who did respond seemed to be spouting a party line.
http://hippieprofessor.com/2009/09/20/hoosier-tort-reformer/
Anyway, just curious….
— hp
You’re right, I do not do PI work.
My biggest concern is that your seeking the judgment of people who couldn’t seem to weed the irresponsible or incompetent out of their ranks to begin with. That’s a little like setting the fox to guard the hen house.
Then there is the concern about pressure/bribes on the panel. I don’t think it is an invalid concern.
I know that others in my profession have taken aim at the contingent fee structure that allows 30 to 40 percent of an award that goes to the attorney. Yes, what this means is that sometimes, it is a “payday”, but at the same time, there are cases which the attorney loses money on because there is no settlement or award. Overall, this allows them to take “small” cases in addition to the large ones, which can be important, especially since med mal cases can be very expensive to prosecute.
I don’t have the wisdom of Solomon. I don’t have the answers. I might be inclined to favor a “loser pays” result, except that it can be a deterent to people seeking redress. However, since insurance companies are notorious for putting a price tag on various injuries, I might also suggest that caps be made available for certain injuries. If we accept the theory that the economic loss to a 75 year old retiree who loses the use of a hand is different than a 25 year old skilled tradesman with 3 kids, then maybe there needs to be an outside limit on what a jury can award…which then touches off the fight over what is and what is not a reasonable cap for various damages with the insurance company lowballing and the trial lawyers going high…
BiW said: Bonus question: Name for me two government programs that have never expanded, either in scope, or size.
The Civilian Conservation Corps and the Works Progress Administration are two that come to mind immediately – I am sure there are many others. Now – to be honest – both of them may have briefly expanded during their short existence. But, both were phased out as the need for them diminished. I am sure you weren’t thinking of New Deal programs when you asked your question – but I find it ironic that so many people cite the New Deal as an example of out-of-control bureaucratic expansion – when in fact many programs were phased out when no longer needed.
You ask: “What makes it appropriate for people like you to decide that you want to give something back in the form of a government entitlement, in which we are all forced to participate, rather than really giving something back by donating your time, and your money to causes that you believe in?”
Let me ask a question back: Why do we even tax people for infrastructure? Defense? Education? Why don’t we just let people donate their money freely to these programs, and allow them to pick and choose the ones they believe in?
You know the answer as well as I do. People wouldn’t donate the money needed. They would say “I will never use that bridge so I am not paying for it” and “I don’t have kids so I am not paying for education” or “I don’t read so I am not supporting the library” or “I don’t support a war in Iraq so I am not sending my money to the DOD.”
Seriously – what gives the government the right to do even those things? The government does it because these things are necessary for a healthy society – and the people left to their own devices simply won’t do it.
I happen to think that universal health care falls in the same category. I know that you don’t. I would be perfectly happy if people would donate to universal health care out of the goodness of their own hearts. Sadly, I suspect they won’t. (Yes – we can go on and on and on about interpretations of the “general welfare” clause in the Constitution and we won’t convince each other – so lets not reopen that).
— hp
The Civilian Conservation Corps and the Works Progress Administration are two that come to mind immediately – I am sure there are many others. Now – to be honest – both of them may have briefly expanded during their short existence. But, both were phased out as the need for them diminished. I am sure you weren’t thinking of New Deal programs when you asked your question – but I find it ironic that so many people cite the New Deal as an example of out-of-control bureaucratic expansion – when in fact many programs were phased out when no longer needed.
Considering the expansion of the New Deal’s Social Security program, we may be looking at a wash on that. 😉
Seriously – what gives the government the right to do even those things? The government does it because these things are necessary for a healthy society – and the people left to their own devices simply won’t do it.
Actually, we explicitly gave the government that right:
You’ll note that this specific grant of authority is conspicuously missing anything granting Congress the right to participate in the markets it also regulates, to provide medical care, or even food to its citizens, or otherwise spend money to insulate citizens and entities from the consequences of their bad decisions, to make determinations on whether a citizen or class of citizens “make too much”, or irresponsibly provide entitlements until the very well-being of the economy is threatened, or to foment class envy in and among its citizens.
And there is a reason for that.
BiW said: You’ll note that this specific grant of authority is conspicuously missing anything granting Congress……. And there is a reason for that.
You may not remember, but the very first exchange we ever had involved the interpretation of the “general welfare” clause. It came down to a Madison versus Hamilton thing as I remember, with both of us having some Supreme Court precedent on our side.
I don’t want to reopen that argument at this time because I suspect neither of us are going to budge on the issue. 😉
Health care reform is a moral issue for me. I believe that some practices of insurance companies are tantamount to murder. I would cite rescission practices in which an insured person is dropped by the insurance company as soon as they get sick – often over an obscure technicality. It really isn’t insurance then, is it?
You wrongly assume that I want the government to take over the health care industry. I want to see insurance companies stop putting profits before health. If they would do that by themselves, I would be all for it. I don’t have a lot of confidence they will do that – or even that they can do that – because in a free market the company engaging in unsavory practices will be able to deliver the product at a lower cost and will drive the ethical company out of business.
— hp
aargh – forgot to turn off the itals….
You wrongly assume that I want the government to take over the health care industry.
No. You’ll just get behind a plan that will result in exactly that happening and with the expectation that healthcare won’t morph into the “take a number” “you’re in the wrong department” “oh, I can’t do that” situation we face with all other government “customer service”. As I have to deal with one of those entities on a regular basis and I have a special phone number that supposedly gets me past a lot of the waiting time that the “regular” public has, I can tell you that I would rather have my gums extracted…by way of my nostrils, then have the governmentization of health care, which is exactly what we get if Obamacare passes.
I suspect that you are another in the masses who don’t treat health insurance like other insurance, nor do you approach it like a consumer, because like many people who obtain it through an employer, you are insulated from the costs charged for the services.
Health care reform is a moral issue for me.
And I completely missed this gem.
So if I want the government to “be moral” and prohibit the killing of those who cannot speak in their own defense, I’m a bigot, I have my hands on a woman’s body, I’m against their right to choose to commit murder, etc., but when you want the government to “be moral”, it is an imperative that it gets power and its hands inside my wallet so you can end the tyranny of the insurance companies and their average of 5% profits annually?
What? Explain that canyon-sized disconnect to me.
Hippie,
Since we both want some type of health care reform, why not try a more prudent approach? One that won’t cost either of us a dime and might save us a few bucks. And one that at a minimum should help to ensure more are insured.
Why don’t you first ask your side to accept tort reform and interstate competition for insurance before we attempt anything else?
And here’s a bet. To prove to you I believe most liberals the most pretentious and phony people on earth, you will not be able to get your side to even give consideration to either one of those suggestions.
Tex asked…. Why don’t you first ask your side to accept tort reform and interstate competition for insurance before we attempt anything else?
I am on record as being in favor of both.
Tort reform can be tricky – I don’t like the idea of strict caps because they penalize the victim in the truly egregious cases of malpractice (i.e., removing the wrong kidney). I don’t know if you saw this (I linked it above) – here is something I wrote about a promising solution. BiW (speaking as a lawyer) doesn’t like it…
http://hippieprofessor.com/2009/09/20/hoosier-tort-reformer/
I am absolutely all for removal of barriers to interstate competition. To be honest, the only opposition I have heard on that one has come from conservatives who feel it is a violation of states rights – which I think is a bogus argument. BiW – what is your constitutional opinion on that?
— hp
BiW (speaking as a lawyer) doesn’t like it…
I have misgivings, and I explained why that is. I’d have the same misgivings even if I was not an attorney, and if you didn’t want an informed opinion, why did you ask? Better yet, you offered nothing in regard to the suggestions I raised. I think your statement is a gross mischaracterization.
I am absolutely all for removal of barriers to interstate competition. To be honest, the only opposition I have heard on that one has come from conservatives who feel it is a violation of states rights – which I think is a bogus argument. BiW – what is your constitutional opinion on that?
I think this is likely a commerce clause issue, which is a whole subset of Constitutional Law, and not something I could offer an informed opinion on. To be honest, I’m not sure how much the states act as gateways for insurance carriers for other insurance.
I do recall that there is substantial federal legislation regulating health care through compensation and benefits law (including ERISA) that have prevented other forms of medical benefits providers like VEBAs and WEBAs from providing coverage to groups and individuals in the past.
Then cap it at lifetime earning expectations with a 10% (or some other arbitrary, mutually agreed upon figure) penalty.
Persons with doctoral degrees earn an average of $3.4 million during their working life, while those with professional degrees do best at $4.4 million.
Don’t set conditions for folks to think that water on the floor is a pay day…
I don’t like the idea of strict caps because they penalize the victim in the truly egregious cases of malpractice
You do realize that by making this distinction, you move beyond the concept of compensation for damages and are now talking about punative damages, right?
I do think that this is also a problem when you are in states that have hard caps on punative damages, or do not permit them at all, juries sometimes “make adjustments” in their damage awards anyway.
I have said it before – the empowering effects I am talking about may take a generation to be evident – but it will be worth the wait.
???
Why will it be “worth the wait”?
No black parent will ever again be able to tell a child they can’t be President because they are black.
If any black parent told their child that before Barack Hussein Obama, then they were selling themselves and their children short. But then, seeing as they had no one to point to on the Supreme Court, the military, or the cabinet, I’m sure that these children can now thank their lucky stars that BHO lead the way for them.
An entire generation of black children will grow up with a firmer belief in the reality of the American dream.
Yeah, they too could grow up to be elected on a paper thin resume and vague promises so they could try to outsuck Dhimmi Cahtur as the WORST PRESIDENT EVAR!!! What a service he has performed for our society and the republic.
A comment I just made at R’s place. Seems fitting here as well…
“I’ve seen HP debate BiW that Obama’s election breaks the glass ceiling for blacks and gives them hope that they can truly be President some day. OK, I suppose I could buy that except that Obama’s election didn’t have anything to do with the hope of accomplishing some other, less lofty goals, like graduating high school or maintaining the family unit.”
BiW hits the nail on the head. There are lots of great role models out there, you just don’t like them because they are Conservative. So really, this isn’t about role models as it is about justifying the unjustifiable- Obama isn’t/wasn’t qualified for the position and to vote for him- whether solely or partially- based on race is, well, racist.
BiW hits the nail on the head. There are lots of great role models out there, you just don’t like them because they are Conservative. So really, this isn’t about role models as it is about justifying the unjustifiable.
Gorilla – I agree that there are lots of good black conservative role models out there. But – you have to ask yourself why they don’t seem to connect with the black community? Perhaps it is because once they free themselves from the bonds of oppression and break the cycle of poverty they don’t come back to the community where they will serve as visible role model?. Lets face it – uneducated folks in the inner city – black or white – are not reading Thomas Sowell. I said this before – perhaps if conservatives rolled up their sleeves and actually tried to help on the community level – if they became one of those dreaded community organizers – they would be taken seriously as role models.
Obama isn’t/wasn’t qualified for the position and to vote for him- whether solely or partially- based on race is, well, racist.
You know, I don’t get how someone with an exceptional education, President of Harvard Law, and amazingly articulate, can be viewed as unqualified. Yeah – I can hear Tex boiling over about how over-rated that education is – but sorry – I don’t buy it. Look at his writing. He writes his own speeches – examine one sometime. There are exceptionally well crafted. Listen to him talking off the cuff about Niebuhr. He is quite articulate – and Nebuhr isn’t easy material. (Lets not get off on a tangent about whether you like Niebuhr – my point is that we have ample evidence that Obama has a fair mastery of a difficult topics)
I also take exception to the suggestion that including race as a factor in voting for Obama is racist. Racism requires a negative stereotype. What negative stereotype is being invoked here?
— hp
BiW said: If any black parent told their child that before Barack Hussein Obama, then they were selling themselves and their children short.
So here is the disconnect. You claim that they should never have told their children “you can’t be President.” I have some sympathy with that view. It is relatively common in the white community to say “discrimination and racism are a thing of the past – what is your problem?” I myself said similar things when I was younger.
But – just because you think something SHOULDN’T be said – doesn’t mean it ISN’T said – and you aren’t going to keep it from being said just because you don’t think it is logical.
You know – there is some reason that the black community does not believe in the American dream. A black male has a greater chance of being shot or of going to prison than he does of going to college. It is hard to be optimistic given those odds. What are conservative role models actually doing to try to change those odds?
BTW – I find the gratuitous emphasis on Obama’s middle name in contexts where it is irrelevant to be offensive. I am curious about why you do it.
— hp
P.S. I can hear it now – you are going to blame it all on the liberals….. sheesh.
If you quit before you start, then you’ll never finish or succeed. That is the point to BiW’s comment.
I’m curious, would you call yourself qualified to be President? I’m curious since you have more experience than The One.
Pedigree is not a qualification. He’s never ran anything. Just watching the train wreck that is the administration, it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn’t know what he is doing.
I disagree on race. OK, it is OK to vote for the white guy not because you hate the black guy for being black, but because you support the white guy for being white. So really, it is a positive perspective…
BS flag is flying…
Gorilla said….
I disagree on race. OK, it is OK to vote for the white guy not because you hate the black guy for being black, but because you support the white guy for being white. So really, it is a positive perspective…
BS flag is flying…
I will fly the BS flag right back in your face, Gorilla…
So – here is a quick thought question. Had a white person delivered MLK’s “I had a Dream” speech (substituting “you” for “we” of course) would it have been as effective?
If you say “yes” you are delusional.
If you say “no” you are correct – but you are certainly not being a racist to say so.
— hp
So – here is a quick thought question. Had a white person delivered MLK’s “I had a Dream” speech (substituting “you” for “we” of course) would it have been as effective?
If you say “yes” you are delusional.
If you say “no” you are correct – but you are certainly not being a racist to say so.
I’m not sure where you are trying to go with that analogy. I’m picking up on a speech and race fixation with you today.
Dr. King was actually a far better speaker than Barack Hussein Obama, in part because of a more effective delivery, and in part because he championed a cause that invoked American ideals, but really, you lost me with this…
BiW said: Dr. King was actually a far better speaker than Barack Hussein Obama, in part because of a more effective delivery, and in part because he championed a cause that invoked American ideals, but really, you lost me with this…
I most certainly was not trying to compare Obama with Dr. King. Obama himself would not invite that comparison.
Here is a recap:
1) Gorilla said it was racist of me to vote for Obama partly on the basis of race.
2) I said it was not most certainly not racism if I believed that someone of his race was more qualified address certain issues I found to be important. Being a positive role model to the black community is something I believe to be important – not because I think it should be out of some paternalistic white liberal guilt but because black friends and colleagues have told me it is important. It is also something that a black person is uniquely positioned.
3) Gorilla said it was still racism.
4) I made the MLK analogy. All else held equal (including speaking ability, etc) a white person would have been far less effective delivering the “I had a Dream” speech. It isn’t racist to say so, either.
— hp
OK, so what makes a white supremacist group racist, it’s proponent stance on whites or its antagonistic stance on non-white?
Do you mean to tell me that the Black Panthers are not racist?
Probably to irritate you…
A black male has a greater chance of being shot or of going to prison than he does of going to college.
Not that old canard.
Not that old canard.
Hmmm. Linky no work. I’ll just do it the ugly way:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/10/young_black_males_headed_for_e_1.html
geoff said: Not that old canard.
geoff, it all depends on what statistics you look at – and frankly I think the ones you are citing are misleading.
Lets try this:
About 16 percent of US born African American males achieve a bachelors degree. From your own link about 32 percent of African American males are imprisoned at some point of their life.
Cut it however you like – those are not statistics to inspire confidence.
— hp
Perhaps it is because once they free themselves from the bonds of oppression and break the cycle of poverty they don’t come back to the community where they will serve as visible role model?. Lets face it – uneducated folks in the inner city – black or white – are not reading Thomas Sowell. I said this before – perhaps if conservatives rolled up their sleeves and actually tried to help on the community level – if they became one of those dreaded community organizers – they would be taken seriously as role models.
Mmmm…yeah. Because they make a much better role model when they stop serving society as a whole to return to the plantation and “organize a community” i.e. start making demands in the name of “social justice”. Kind of like the Wrong Reverend Jackson rolling up in his limo to the inner-city high school, getting out, having an assembly where he goes and tells all the kids assembled to keep saying “I am somebody!” and not “Study hard.” or “Get right with God and build strong beliefs and habits.” or “The world isn’t going to give it to you, you have to earn it.” And then he gets back in his limo and drives away.
So here is the disconnect. You claim that they should never have told their children “you can’t be President.” I have some sympathy with that view. It is relatively common in the white community to say “discrimination and racism are a thing of the past – what is your problem?” I myself said similar things when I was younger.
But – just because you think something SHOULDN’T be said – doesn’t mean it ISN’T said – and you aren’t going to keep it from being said just because you don’t think it is logical.
You are so right. If I had a daughter, I would tell her that she couldn’t grow up to be President until we elect a woman.
HP, if you’re going to be condescending to them, and and only hold them accountable to their own expectations, and not the higher aspirations that society at large has for them, how are you any different then the Dhimicratic politicians who have built their careers on the culture of dependency that they have burdened “the black community” with?
BTW – I find the gratuitous emphasis on Obama’s middle name in contexts where it is irrelevant to be offensive. I am curious about why you do it.
I wasn’t aware that it was gratuitous. After all, if union shills and Obama faithful across the nation could train children to sing about “Barack Hussein Obama”, I figure that it must please Barack Hussein Obama to hear his full name. Besides, after 8 years of hearing about “W”, it seems more respectful to me say the whole name.
You know, I don’t get how someone with an exceptional education, President of Harvard Law, and amazingly articulate, can be viewed as unqualified.
Grand ideas and schemes and a silver tongue do not an executive make.
Look at his writing. He writes his own speeches – examine one sometime. There are exceptionally well crafted.
And they are so useful when trying to implement policy. Just look at his success in convincing the American people, Congressional Republicans, and members of his own party of the wisdom and necessity of a Government takeover of health care. No, wait…
Listen to him talking off the cuff about Niebuhr. He is quite articulate – and Nebuhr isn’t easy material. (Lets not get off on a tangent about whether you like Niebuhr – my point is that we have ample evidence that Obama has a fair mastery of a difficult topics
Superceded only by his off teleprompter mastery of other important toipics, like geography, and breathilizers, er uh inhilators, uh, you know, that thing that people with astma use. And to have him share his knowledge and concern about arugula prices? It brought a tear to my eye. A tear!
If it isn’t too much trouble, could I have an answer to my question about why your Moral Issue of healthcare is more important than my Moral Issue of government protecting those who cannot defend themselves?
BiW said: If it isn’t too much trouble, could I have an answer to my question about why your Moral Issue of healthcare is more important than my Moral Issue of government protecting those who cannot defend themselves?
Why is it I feel like you are cross-examining me? This entire conversation started when you insisted I answer a question over on Rutherford’s blog. Now you are insisting again. I suppose next you will be requesting that the judge instruct the witness to answer….
😉
I am slow in responding because my views of abortion are rather nuanced and are far more moderate than you would ever guess. I would, for example, support a ban on late-term abortion. Actually, I would support a ban on any abortions after the point of viability, which is somewhere around 23 weeks (late 2nd trimester). Earlier abortions are a bit more morally ambiguous for me. Issues like rape and incest and health of the mother do weigh in for me at these earlier stages. I will be happy at some point in the future to elaborate.
By comparison, there is nothing at all morally ambiguous about insurance companies accepting premium payments for years and then, when a person gets sick, dropping them on the basis of some technicality. That that they do it in the name of profit is even more heinous.
As I said, there is a lot more I would need to write to flesh this out – but that is the time I have for now.
— hp
Hippie,
It’s a well established fact that white on black crime is almost nonexistent, especially when compared to the statistic of black on black crime.
I’m just wondering when you are going to admit that most of the black problems today don’t extend from systemic racism, but of the breakdown of the black family. Did I miss that someplace?
I hardly think you can blame over 70% of black babies being born to single mothers racist. And if you are going to blame multi-generational welfare recipients on racism, then you better start looking in the mirror. LBJ’s Great Society programs (always with other’s money, mind you) was a doing of establishment you belong.
Ironic the man most quoted as charismatic leader from the left like Hippie is MLK. He was a Black Baptist preacher, and his most famous speeches were premised on biblical analogy, including “I have a Dream” and “Let Freedom Ring.” I suppose liberals are not steeped enough to realize the speeches they most like to quote are based on the very scripture they are invariably hostile towards.
Hippie, perhaps you can see why I think most of the Left twisted and demented.
They don’t like to admit that MLK was a republican as well. Doesn’t fit their narrative…
You would think if they knew history…MLK would be the last man they would want to invoke.
Gorilla said They don’t like to admit that MLK was a republican as well. Doesn’t fit their narrative…
Tex said: You would think if they knew history…MLK would be the last man they would want to invoke.
Or perhaps we recognize quality of thought regardless of party affiliation?
You guys amaze me. You should know enough by now to realize that I DO NOT just recite the party line. There are plenty of conservative thinkers I admire. Just in the last few minutes Tex you again accuse me of trashing those of religious faith – even though it should be abundantly obvious to you that I have great respect for religious faith even if I don’t share it.
Maybe – for a second – you guys could recognize that some people on my side of the aisle do on occasion think for ourselves?
— hp
Hippie,
Like I said on your own blog, while I like you and think you make some attempt at being reasonable on occasion, your own conclusions using your own justifications completely escape me. Being a trained psychologist, I would think you would be the first to recognize the incongruity of your positions.
Admiration is meaningless to pure religion. Respect is meaningless to pure religion. Everyone admires the Golden Rule, but you don’t admire nor respect what precedes the Golden Rule. I respect a police officer holding a gun to my head. I both admire and respect the way Peyton Manning can throw a football. Conviction is what is required. MLK had it and I share it – you don’t.
You guys from the Left would be more honest if you would start invoking Manslow, or Nietzsche, or Buddha, Sun Tzu, or Kant to tie your wagon.
But don’t tell me you share the convictions of Martin Luther King. You may have a form of his religion – but you do not share in the power thereof. You may both admire and respect the man’s words but you do not share his convictions. You can not serve two masters.
Look at his writing. He writes his own speeches – examine one sometime. There are exceptionally well crafted.
I don’t know how you came to this conclusion. Obama’s own inauguration speech was penned by Jon Favreau, a 27 year old Democrat, and head speech writer for Obama. Obama may deliver them well – but he most certainly doesn’t craft them.
And as talented as Obama may be Hippie, I have never heard a more eloquent, more poignant speech given by a politician, than the man you call “Dubya” – that dummy and failure from Texas. His speech shortly after 9/11 will be considered as one of the best ever given.
I still can’t understand how you are so easily swayed. I think your bias is so profound, that like Rutherford so much of yourself is invested in Obama, that you simply can’t bring yourself to admit his glaring failures and shortcomings.
Who Wrote Dreams From My Father? http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html
Something you might enjoy, since you like his writing so much…
A snipit…
“Once elected president of the Harvard Law Review –more of a popularity than a literary contest — Obama contributed not one signed word to the HLR or any other law journal. As Matthew Franck has pointed out in National Review Online, “A search of the HeinOnline database of law journals turns up exactly nothing credited to Obama in any law review anywhere at any time.“
Gorilal said…. Something you might enjoy, since you like his writing so much…
Wow – I would think you would recognize a political hatchet job when you see it – but apparently not when it agrees with your personal biases….
Why don’t we consider instead Obama’s “A More Perfect Union” speech – for which the writing process is quite well documented. I guess you suspect he had Bill Ayers flown in for that too….
You guys absolutely refuse to give the guy credit for anything. You relish even attacking his strengths. You love to make claims about how I must have relentlessly attacked Bush – even though you didn’t even know me then. Guess what – I was never this hard on Bush.
— hp
You read the entire piece?
Why is it I feel like you are cross-examining me? This entire conversation started when you insisted I answer a question over on Rutherford’s blog. Now you are insisting again. I suppose next you will be requesting that the judge instruct the witness to answer….
Probably because instead of answering, you ask more questions, which get answered, and when the return volley contains more questions, you answer one, and ask more questions. I wouldn’t have to ask the Judge to instruct you to answer. The Judge would do it sua sponte.
even though it should be abundantly obvious to you that I have great respect for religious faith even if I don’t share it.
Sure, sure. “Christ had some really great ideas, except for parts of the law he came to fullfill. Those not so much, because I don’t agree with them, and don’t talk to me about the source of knowledge about these things, because it reflects the will of a God I know to be flawed…” or something like that. I think you confuse the respect of exercise of faith with respecting the faith itself. Claiming to be a part of a faith but refusing all of its tenants is like saying, “I’m a law-abiding citizen. Never mind the fact that I am an accomplished thief. I don’t really believe the prohibition on stealing because it gets in the way of my interests.”
Maybe – for a second – you guys could recognize that some people on my side of the aisle do on occasion think for ourselves?
No problem. I actually grateful for the tacit admission that most people on your side of the aisle frequently don’t. I think we’re making progress here.
You relish even attacking his strengths.
Look at his writing. He writes his own speeches – examine one sometime. There are exceptionally well crafted.
Answer: “I don’t know how you came to this conclusion. Obama’s own inauguration speech was penned by Jon Favreau, a 27 year old Democrat, and head speech writer for Obama. Obama may deliver them well – but he most certainly doesn’t craft them.” -Tex [Emphasis Added]
Why don’t we consider instead Obama’s “A More Perfect Union” speech – for which the writing process is quite well documented.
So your train of myth is derailed by some of those facts that Rutherford finds to be in such short supply, and you want to whine about the perceptions of the people with a better command of them then you? And you want to be taken seriously on this point?
About 16 percent of US born African American males achieve a bachelors degree.
Beautiful: you gracefully slide from “go to college” to “achieve a bachelors degree.” And now they have to be born in this country, while the imprisoned population does not.
Way to move the goal posts.
(First time commenter here on this excellent blog.)
I have said it before – the empowering effects I am talking about may take a generation to be evident – but it will be worth the wait.
I thoroughly disagree with the notion that Obama’s election was worth a try so as to inspire young blacks that they can be whatever they want. It will be worth the wait? What if when the wait is over our economy is in worse shape, and nothing has changed in the minds of young people. We’ve had generations of The Great Society and it has destroyed the black family.
Hmmm….so essentially we demonstrate yet again to young blacks that they can’t make it on their merits, but that they can make it based on their race. I have witnessed numerous individuals admit that Obama’s race was a large factor in voting for him. So we essentially got our first affirmative action president.
Young black males see themselves as not worthy because their communities demonstrate that they are not worthy each and every day. They are not needed as fathers. They are not needed as husbands. They are not needed as wage earners.
The bar gets lowered in their schools in the faint hope that some of them will actually go to school and graduate, then when they get out in the real world they find out that they didn’t learn shit. Then the bar is lowered in colleges and they get enrolled due to quotas.
That’s a real inspirational platform for self-worth and a feeling of accomplishment.
It’s more apt to leave them wondering how much longer we’ll have to wait to get our first qualified black president.
A black male has a greater chance of being shot or of going to prison than he does of going to college.
Maybe those black males should get educated, get a job, and get married before having children. They only need to look in the mirror.
And hippy, go read the great black economist Thomas Sowell. Between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of the Great Society, black entrepreneurship, business, college attendance, were growing by leaps and bounds. And most importantly, the black family was intact.
There was a mama, a daddy, and the children who got their butts whupped as needed – in the same household. Since the government became daddy, the black family was destroyed resulting in the fallout of noone teaching boys how to become responsible men. Thus, the violence. Seventy-five percent of men in prison say that they had no good male role model or father figure.