Offered Without Comment
August 25, 2010 by Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere
Posted in 'dialogues' with the left, Faux Intellectualism, Jerks, Miles Across and Inches Deep, Politics, The Politics of Lowered Expectations™, What Really Matters, Why the Internet Is Fun and Informative, WordPress Political Blogs | 207 Comments
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- "I want these “…and I’m a communist” dumbshits to have a Coming to Jesus moment that they will NEVER forget. I want them staring in to the eyes of every American who knows that government has very specifically designated roles, and are fed-up to their eyeballs with the overeaching, paternalistic, oppressive monster that the Left (with help from the establishment Right) set loose on us. I want those greedy, lazy, control-freaky bastards quaking with fear when they are met with an electorate determined to wrest their liberties, including the right to fail, back from a government that would enslave us all to the service of a soul-killing mediocrity. I want their asses so horrifiyingly and memorably whipped that the mere memory will cow a century’s worth of socialist/communist/marxist acoyltes into an ashamed silence." ________________________________ "When a strict interpretation of the Constitution, according to the fixed rules which govern the interpretation of laws, is abandoned, and the theoretical opinions of individuals are allowed to control its meaning, we no longer have a Constitution, we are under the government of individual men, who for the time being have power to declare what the Constitution is according to their own views of what it ought to mean."--Justice Curtis, Dissent, Dred Scott v. Sanford
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Classy. Very classy.
Probably went home and wrote about his heroics on his diary at the Daily KOS.
You know. The usual stuff about taking a brave stand for freedom in the face of some evil conservative rethuglican’s efforts to take away the rights of these America-loving muslims.
If there is such a thing as karma, I think this guy is gonna get erased.
BiW …. I’ve NEVER posted this many consecutive times about Sarah Palin. 🙂
Personally, I think it is very bad taste to go after the elderly. Even the oldest fool has earned some modicum of respect for surviving in this rat race for this long.
That said, a holocaust survivor can’t be wrong? This makes him an expert on who should be persecuted and who should not?
I notice that you studiously avoided the video of the WTC non-Muslim construction worker wearing a skull cap who was mistaken for Muslim and then treated with similar vitriol as the guy in your video. Brown skinned guy with skull cap must be an evil Muslim.
These are sad times indeed.
BiW …. I’ve NEVER posted this many consecutive times about Sarah Palin.
I know. But the difference is I’m posting about something that actually matters, R.
All Palin hatred gets you is egg on your face, like the clowns at Politico who wanted to make Miller’s defeat about her, and a restraining order, which I expect you to get served with any day.
That said,
Janus would be so proud of you.
As for the video you discuss, I haven’t seen it. Was that before or after Keef pretended that he was introducing a new concept with the Overton Window?
That said, a holocaust survivor can’t be wrong? This makes him an expert on who should be persecuted and who should not?
I’m willing to bet he knows far more than you could ever possibly imagine, and in your heart, you know this too.
Ah, Rutherford, I would trust the gut of a Holocaust survivor over that of someone who believes he had a legitimate reason to curse out an old man who wasn’t doing anything wrong. Holocaust survivors are the living legacy of Jew hatred. Anti-Semitism was institutionalized by Hitler’s Nazism, but it was codified long ago in the scriptures, doctrines, and traditions of Islam.
There is a sad sort of irony in all this. Liberal American Jews (Mayor Bloomberg, for example) fighting for fundamentalist Muslims to build a mosque, the traditional symbol of Islamic conquest, at the site of one of the worst calculated acts of jihad the modern world has ever seen. And when a Holocaust survivor protests this proposed location, another liberal non-Muslim accuses him of being a hater of freedom.
It is as if should you protest against the actions of blatant freedom-haters (fundamentalist Muslims), then you hate freedom because you are not advocating for the freedom of a conqueror to conquer you.
This is nuts. It is suicidal. And it is hateful.
Liberals need to wake up. They scream about “white supremacists” all the while they roll out the red carpet for the Muslim supremacists. This is the most illogical, wicked sort of thinking I have ever had the privilege of witnessing.
Natassia, I guess my only question would be, are the thousands of mosques that exist all over this country symbols of Muslim conquest? I found that one part of your comment a bit sweeping.
Are they all built on the remains of people killed in terrorist attacks performed by practitioners of the radical elements of the religion of which a mosque is representative?
I doubt it, which makes your idiotic statement…. well.. idiotic.
Wiserbud, wrong again. Look at Natassia’s comment:
This makes Natassia’s
idioticsweeping statement…. well..idioticsweeping.If the mosque is the traditional symbol of Islamic conquest, and not simply a place in which Muslims worship, then every mosque should be offensive to us no matter how close to sacred ground it is built.
Wiserbud, do you find it the least bit offensive that the WTC site has not been rebuilt in nine years? For that matter, do you find it the least bit offensive that what eventually gets built will probably be the home of another Goldman Sachs like company that precipitated our current economic disaster? How ’bout a planned shopping mall there? Does that offend you? Why is your outrage reserved for Muslims and none seems to be left over for our sad excuse for remembrance of the dead?
If the mosque is the traditional symbol of Islamic conquest, and not simply a place in which Muslims worship, then every mosque should be offensive to us no matter how close to sacred ground it is built.
Study up on the history of Islam and you will see that she is not that wrong.
However, the reason why we, as a society, have not gotten up in arms about the other mosques that have been built in this country is because (I’m writing this slowly so you will understand)
We are a tolerant society.
But the GZM pushes the limits of that tolerance.
You will never get that, nor will any of the other mindless drones that continue to use their MSNBC-approved talking points.
What a pity.
Wiserbud, do you find it the least bit offensive that the WTC site has not been rebuilt in nine years?
Yep. And if you had any clue as to why, you would be embarrassed. I’ll leave that for you to research. I already know the reason those towers have not been rebuilt.
For that matter, do you find it the least bit offensive that what eventually gets built will probably be the home of another Goldman Sachs like company that precipitated our current economic disaster?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!!! Yeah, damn those evil corporations for playing by the rules that the Feds forced them to follow.
If you honestly believe that companies like Goldman Sachs are at fault, you really are less intelligent that I could have ever imagined.
But please, continue to try to distract from the actual topic, since you obviously cannot rationally defend your mindless defense of those who work tirelessly for your destruction.
How ……expected.
How ’bout a planned shopping mall there? Does that offend you?
Nope. At least a shopping mall would not be a monument to one of the greatest victories ever achieved by those who have declared war on us.
Why is your outrage reserved for Muslims and none seems to be left over for our sad excuse for remembrance of the dead?
My outrage is reserved for those who wish to perform a victory dance on the remains of the American citizens that the more radical elements of Islam (whom, by the way, were supported by the very same people who are funding the construction of this mosque) murdered.
The best way to show those who’s clearly stated goal is to destroy my country and everything it stands for that they have failed is to rebuild the towers. Not to bow down and capitulate those very same enemies in some twisted version of “tolerance.”
Anti-Semitism was institutionalized by Hitler’s Nazism, but it was codified long ago in the scriptures, doctrines, and traditions of Islam.
It was also kind of interesting that they worked together towards their common goal, the eradication of Jews, huh?
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/#hitler
Any Jew who defends Islam in effect defends Hitler’s actions.
How sad.
Thomas Friedman got it right this morning when he said “we are not the people of 9/11. We are the people of the Fourth of July.”
We are drowning in the very victimhood that you so detest from various minorities. Instead of celebrating our tradition of independence … our achievements over the years, we are becoming a nation weighed down by recent misfortunes. We now cling to those misfortunes; we let hate take over. It will get us no where.
Freidman couldn’t be correct about the time of day if he owned ten wrist watches. Unfortunately, when you and your friends figure out how wrong you are, it may require the blood of a lot of good people to set things right.
BIC,
They dont care. The drones share an ideology that is alien to liberty and freedom.
He called that guy, “camera guy”? wow, that was pretty harsh.
we let hate take over.
BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!
Yeah, it’s only been recently that that bad, icky hatred thing has entered the discussion. Must be all those racist teabaggers who started it.
What a clown.
Who’s putting words in whose mouth now?
Are you going to make me go get Rutherford quotes on the Tea Party and hate, R?
Because I’m 97.9% sure I can find them in a Rutherford post…probably one about Sarah Palin.
Yes, but BiW it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Wiserbud introduced the tea party angle. I did not and would not. It’s not relevant here.
weighed down by recent misfortunes.
3000 innocent people murdered for simply going to work that day by adherents to one of the most vile religious/political philosophies ever created and you call it a “misfortune.”
This is why I said you were an unserious person.
I’m actually quite serious about American ideals. How ’bout you?
Which is obvious from all the posts about the good things in capitalism, and supporting freedom of religion that you have put up over time. Wait, what?
Unbelievable. Is that douchebag wearing a shirt with flowers on it?
Thomas Friedman got it right this morning when he said “we are not the people of 9/11. We are the people of the Fourth of July.”
How ’bout you unpack that statement for me? WTF does it actually mean?
What it means is that in Tom Friedman’s estimation, our country is not about continual mourning and paranoia over 9/11. It is a country that celebrates the freedoms that our founding fathers envisioned. 9/11 represents a wound to our nation. 7/4 represents the birth of our nation and our ideals, unmatched by any other country on the globe. Whice should we dwell on, the wound and our pain, or our strength.
I left off the rest of his comment where he mentioned July 20, 1969, another date that best represents what our country is about … achieving the long term goal of putting a man on the moon.
What are our goals now? We are in economic peril but we waste time on religious wars.
“We are in economic peril but we waste money on failed socialist programs like healh care reform, pay off unions for their asistance in electing Dhims, and muscle out legitimate bond holders in bids to purchase failing private enterprises with taxpayer money because they’re too big to fail.”
This is what a serious person would say.
Fine …. so why are you making the mosque front and center? We know you support their constitutional right to be there. We also know you find it very inappropriate. Done deal. Now move onto our financially irresponsible government.
C’mon Rutherford all things considered,regardless of the Holocaust claim the guy was clearly elderly and appears to have been far less a problem. The “camera guy” hero really deserved an ass kicking.
I granted that the elderly guy should have been left alone.
And promply followed it up with a “But..”
Which of course, grants nothing. Discretion really is the better part of valor, sometimes.
Rutherford, what’s your opinion of this?
Regarding this:
That said, a holocaust survivor can’t be wrong? This makes him an expert on who should be persecuted and who should not?
Whether or not the Mosque should be built on that site is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. So old man wasn’t wrong, he was of a different opinion.
That out-of-control liberal douchebag screaming at the old man was shitting the bed over a difference of opinion which is how the left debates. Scream and/or yell “RACIST!!”.
And I think being a holocaust survivor provides one with a unique perspective on the extremist members of Islam that want to wipe out everyone that’s not them.
In any event, if you’re an 82 year old holocaust survivor you’ve earned a modicum of respect which he did not get, to say the least.
Rosetta, I offered a comment on your piece in an earlier BiW post that excerpted it. This is what I said there:
Rosetta covers ground already covered by countless folks on the right. I’ll focus only on two statements, one with which I agree and one which I find terribly disingenuous.
First, I completely agree with Rosetta that America, taken as a whole, is not Islamaphobic. On the contrary, Muslims are free to practice their religion throughout our nation. Even blow-back against American Muslims post 9/11 was minimal … proven by the fact that had it not been, the so-called “America-hating liberal media” would have been all over it.
However it is disingenuous, to say the least, that we went to Iraq to liberate anyone. We went to both Iraq and Afghanistan to ensure that terrorist organizations would no longer have a safe haven. The only way we know how to do that, besides killing the enemy, is to nurture democratic governments in these countries. Democracy in Iraq, fragile as it is, is a side consequence of our intervention there, not the main goal of our going there.
This is what I would much have preferred to hear from Rosetta:
“Open Letter to Moderate Muslims:
We don’t know you exist because you are too damn quiet. You must speak out openly and publicly against the violent fringe of your religion. We know that you will do this at great personal risk because the violent fringe of your religion are bullies and terrorists. They have you as terrorized as anyone else. But if you wish to show courage and truly stand as equals among your neighbors of different faiths and creeds, then you must come forward and denounce the fringe. You must do it at every opportunity.
If you fail to do so, there is no way that you can be taken seriously as anything but a violent community intent on nothing more than conquest.
Fin.”
Being 82 … definitely earns you respect. Being a holocaust survivor definitely earns you a perspective that should be considered (let’s not assume all holocaust survivors have the same perspective). And finally, Rosetta, you are absolutely right. The man had a right to his opinion and he was not “wrong” per se.
I happen to disagree with him.
I lost a friend at the Trade Center on 9/11. His body was never found. I don’t consider that a “misfortune”, you fucking douchebag. Neither, I’m sure, do his father, his brothers, his former fiance to whom he had just become engaged or any of of the other family and friends who knew him.
It is very possible this some of his remains are a part of the ground upon which they want to build this mosque. That is a vile and offensive concept to me, in the extreme. And to have douchebags like the one in this video scream like a fucking lunatic at someone who is expressing the freedom of speech in opposition to this mosque fills me with thoughts of violence.
It’s amazing to me that the very same liberals who are constantly exercising their freedom of speech to insult someone else’s exercise of their freedom of religion now want to take away someone else’s freedom of speech by screaming “FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!!”
This is not about freedom of religion. It is about shame. Muslims, if they had any shame or remorse at all for the actions of their brethren, they would never have even considered this project at this location.
But they do not, at least those who are pushing for this mosque to be built. To them, this is a victory stand. And useful idiots like the scumbag in the video and Rutherford are willingly in support of this message.
You are both vile people, made worse by your minimizing the events of that day to a simple “misfortune.”
If the hijackers had struck the building about two months earlier in the afternoon instead of the morning, I would not be typing this. My wife, father in law and I had lunch at the top of the tower that July. So get off your f*cking high horse. I cried watching the lucky who escaped describe their panic and fear. You don’t know jack-sh*t about how I feel about 9/11. You’re the f*cking sanctimonious one.
Here’s the fact. You either stand on principle or you don’t. We either have freedom of religion in this country or we don’t. We either tell the truth about the community center or we don’t … it ain’t on the f*cking 9/11 site. It can’t be seen from the site … it does not overlook the site.
Now if you want to go hating every Muslim because your friend died in the Tower, that is between you, your God and your shrink but don’t lecture me about it.
Here’s the fact. You either stand on principle or you don’t. We either have freedom of religion in this country or we don’t.
And Islam specifically prohibits freedom of religion, therefore it is counter to our basic rights and freedoms, and should be morally opposed at every turn, oh sanctimonious one.
We either tell the truth about the community center or we don’t
Okay – it’s a fucking mosque. Why didn’t YOU tell the truth about THAT?
it ain’t on the f*cking 9/11 site. It can’t be seen from the site … it does not overlook the site.
1) Just what is “the f*cking 9/11 site” – both physically and emotionally? The actual physical dimensions of the foundations of the two towers that fell? Maybe we can add any spot where a body landed from somebody who jumped rather than die in the inferno? Or plane wreckage. If it is only the physical site, why did half the city freak when a jet liner was “chased” around the city by a fighter jet last year? Maybe the mental scars of that attack are still great? Why can’t the builders of that MOSQUE understand that? Why do they need another MOSQUE there? Where in the plans for the MOSQUE is there a memorial or rememberance of the 9/11 victims?
2) What is the nearest non-Muslim religous structure to Mecca? Muslims can use THAT distance as a yardstick for building a MOSQUE near the twin towers site. They can receive the same tolerance they exhibit….
Don’t worry R, your horse is too high for anyone else’s to block the view.
Fuck you , you vile piece of shit. I didn’t type that to put myself on any high-horse. I told it to explain why people like me find the idea of our fucking SWORN ENEMIES who have OPENLY DECLARED WAR ON US should NOT be allowed to build a monument to their greatest victory on the remains of our own citizens.
But I guess it is to be expected that, yet again, you completely miss the point. It’s almost like you’re a complete and total fucking idiot or something!
Oh, you were there a few months before 9/11? Wow. You juuuust missed being obliterated. How courageous of you that you can even step outside after coming so close to death.
You and about ~20 million people who visited the Towers prior to them being destroyed.
Fuck you, you smug little prick.
Here’s the fact. You either stand on principle or you don’t.
Just because you can do something doesn;t it mean you should. (Sound familiar at all?) As has been said to you repeatedly (of course, being the dense fucking idiot you are, it just won;’t sink in) this has nothing to do with their Constitutional right to build there. It has to do with whether or not it’s the right thing to do. They are making a clear and Constitutionally-protected statement with this project. Yet you think that people like me do not have a right to make a Constitutionallypprot3ected statement against it?
We either have freedom of religion in this country or we don’t.
HAH!! That’s fucking priceless coming from someone like you. And they say that Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. I guess being able to selectively apply whatever right works to your favor is the first refuge of the lying , vile, scum of the left.
Nice work, R. You do your side proud with your mindless parroting of whatever Keith O. tells you to say.
Well Wiserbud, at least we know where you stand. Islam and every practitioner of it is the enemy.
There will be no convincing you otherwise, so it’s a useless conversation.
No one is arguing against your constitutional right to express your opinion about the community center. It’s being modeled after a Jewish Community Center also in Manhattan. The leader of that center is advising the Muslims on how to proceed. The JCC is not called a synagogue so why must the Muslim community center be called a mosque? You’ve had your say. Lots of people agree with you. Some don’t. Now what?
They build the damn thing anyway. Are you going to go bomb it? You gonna try to tear it down? What’s your next move? I think your best bet is to say “I think this really stinks” and then move on.
You got kids, Wiserbud? Just curious, are you gonna forbid them from marrying anyone who is a peaceful Muslim (assuming for just one moment that that is not an oxymoron)?
Well at least we know where Rutherford stands. He’s against all Holocaust survivors and there’s no convincing him otherwise.
Rutherford, your false logic and counterfeit outrage has become downright embarrassing.
Glad your lunch at Windows on the World qualifies you to dismiss the sensitivities of those who actually suffered.
BTW, I have Muslim friends that agree it’s an affront and believe a real showing of unity would be to respect those that are troubled by it and move the site. Should I spare you the trouble and tell them to shut the fuck up too?
How ’bout you unpack that statement for me? WTF does it actually mean?
Car In, it doesn’t have to mean anything. It’s pretty and it sounds smartish-like.
That’s all Rutherford needed to become twitterpated by His Beloved Obama., so it stands to reason he would feel the same way about Friedman’s blathering.
“Twitterpated” LOL Good one
Only an idiot could admire a statement like that. Honestly. I want Rutherford to tell ME what it means to him.
I mean, if he’s a Fourth of July American, you’d think he’d be a Tea Partier.
If the Tea Party had a focused platform, I might sympathize with them.
If the Tea Party had a focused platform, I might sympathize with them.
Is that a promise, Rutherford?
Here ya go: The FIVE BASIC PRINCIPLES of the ‘DallasTeaParty.org,’ and the ‘Irving Tea Party.org,’ part of the ‘CommonSenseCitizens.org,’ network:
1) Limit government & reclaim right to make our own decisions.
2) Fight for fiscal responsibility.
3) Hold our representatives accountable.
4) Restore the rule of law.
5) Advocate a secure & sovereign nation.
Five. Basic. Principles. Can’t get much more focused that that.
And the Tea Party has no intentions of becoming a political party. It will remain influential. It’s primary roles are to Educate, Energize, and Empower others to get involved. We do not endorse or campaign for candidates nor run for office ourselves. Political parties and candidates don’t get to influence us or govern us in any way. We influence them and if they listen to us, they learn how to build their platforms by learning what is important to us.
Some of well known politicians from Washington have come to visit and meet with members of our leadership and executive teams and ask us the questions… not the other way around.
We will be the judges of whether candidates promises match their records, and compate all this against our basic principles. It kinda easy to spot a phony.
Not all Tea Party groups follow these exact guidelines, but these three mentioned above in which I am affiliated and involved in leadership are sticking with these basics, and it has proven to be very successful.
Fin.
Cathy while I appreciate the information there are a couple of points worth visiting.
First, items 1, 3 and 4 are hardly focused. They would need a lot more elaboration to qualify as an actual actionable platform item. I’ll give you 2 and 5, also a bit vague, but focused enough that we could make a start on them.
We constantly hear about “Tea Party candidates”. Now I understand that you are not a political party. I get that the ballot never says Tea Party. But certain candidates are viewed in the media as endorsed by the Tea Party. Rand Paul has basically called himself a Tea Party candidate.
Finally you say “we do this” and “we don’t do that” but there is no “we”. There is Tea Party Patriots and then there are a number of other groups self identifying as Tea Party such as your groups. You’re not a unified entity.
Hence my comment …. lack of focus.
1) Limit government & reclaim right to make our own decisions.
2) Fight for fiscal responsibility.
3) Hold our representatives accountable.
4) Restore the rule of law.
5) Advocate a secure & sovereign nation.
Wait a second, that’s the GREEN Party’s platform! It’s just been rephrased…
Gotta give you credit for trying, Cathy. Not that I expected you to succeed, but you did try.
Maybe you should have written a 7000 word dissertation on the ideas and concepts behind the Tea Party movement, as opposed to a simple summary. Ya know, because unless you spell everything out in detail for some people, they just don’t have the capabilities or resources to dig deeper for that kind of information themselves, despite being…oh, what’s the term?… Oh, yeah “quick studies” and all.
Oh, and be sure to form under a single leader. The entire movement is worthless unless there is a single leader. Doesn’t provide the focus that some people so desperately need.
Thanks Wiserbud …. I left out the leader part of the argument. It does lend some credibility to a movement when it has some structure which includes a body of leadership.
The media is calling Sarah Palin the leader of the Tea Party so maybe that’s good enough. Then again, maybe it’s Dick Armey?
Today’s younger generation think that they know the intent of the Founding Fathers when in actual fact they know almost nothing at all about them. They have been given a very thin, PC treatment that includes a few key names, exceedingly few facts, and no in depth study of the character of those men. It is very hard to imagine any of the Founding Fathers being in support of a mosque at Ground Zero, even though there exists a right to build one there.
It takes a pretty pathetic young man to stand there and swear at an elderly man as shown in this video. Even in disagreement, youth should have respect for age, wisdom, and experience. Unfortunately, today youth have bought into the idea that age only brings senility and uselessness. Thus they are eager to support the ObamaCare death panels to rid themselves of all those “worthless” old folks. Lack of experience is costly, as we are seeing demonstrated in the Obama regime where no one has a clue because none of them have ever done anything but talk. OJT is expensive, and worse, it is perilously dangerous. But that is what this young man, and all of America, are in for if we persist on our present course of discarding wisdom and experience.
Dr.D.
In the comments to the video at YouTube, people are actually accusing the old guy of lying about his being a Holocaust survivor.
Vile, immature scum.
“We are drowning in the very victimhood that you so detest from various minorities. Instead of celebrating our tradition of independence … our achievements over the years, we are becoming a nation weighed down by recent misfortunes. We now cling to those misfortunes; we let hate take over. It will get us no where.”
WTF????
R, you have hit a real low with your comments here.
Rutherford, please have an adult read this to you:
http://tinyurl.com/354qkpj
Rosetta, I read it myself thank you.
Muslims who feel they must obey sharia law need to find a country other than ours in which to worship. We have separation of church and state in this country.
However, I submit that the majority of American Muslims don’t think twice about sharia law. They know they live under the laws of this country. I agree with the author that they probably ignore sharia law in silence.
As I said in my alternative version of your open letter, truly moderate Muslims, not ones branded moderate by Ivy League egg heads, need to speak out against extremism. Until they do that consistently, battles like the one we’re having now about this community center will continue.
Muslims who feel they must obey sharia law need to find a country other than ours in which to worship. We have separation of church and state in this country.
My, how intolerant of you! “FREEDOM OF RELIGION, YOU FUCKERS!!! FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!!!”
truly moderate Muslims, not ones branded moderate by Ivy League egg heads, need to speak out against extremism.
And, somehow, except for the die-hard defenders of Islam like Rutherford, they just can’t seem to bring themselves to do that very thing you ask of them.
What do you think that indicates, big-brain?
this community center
By the way, you may want get your big-brain to work here and contact the AP and let them know that you have declared that it is not a Mosque.
Oh, and maybe tell that to your Dream-Date-in-Chief too. He seems to think it’s a mosque as well.
Oops! Meant to add this to my response below:
http://www.statesman.com/news/nation/obama-makes-clear-support-for-ground-zero-mosque-858233.html
Above. Whatever.
Rutherford said:
“Thomas Friedman got it right this morning when he said “we are not the people of 9/11. We are the people of the Fourth of July.” ”
Maybe YOU aren’t the “people” of 9/11, Rutherford, but we are. We refuse to lose sight of the fact that Muslims attacked our country, our way of life, and our people, killing nearly 3000 of them. So you’re all set with being “for” something, like liberty and freedom, until you have to be “against” something (you know, showing some actual backbone and courage) and resisting those who have shown a willingness to use violence to get their way.
Show me a moderate Muslim, and I’ll show you someone who true Muslims believe is an apostate and can be killed. Or are we not suppose to actually believe what their Koran and their imans say? Pay no attention to that fatwa on your head….
When the Koran has a new chapter added to it called, “The New Koran”, then I’ll believe there’s such a thing as moderate Muslims.
From all that Islam expert Elric has taught me, you can find your moderate verses in the Mecca part of the Koran. It’s already there.
For every “moderate” verse you can find, there are two or three violent, oppressive, “submit or die” verses.
Fine …. so why are you making the mosque front and center? We know you support their constitutional right to be there. We also know you find it very inappropriate. Done deal. Now move onto our financially irresponsible government.
The same reason that I don’t drop off a busload of kids to play in a cemetary. Because there are some things you just don’t do.
We’ll deal with the financially irresponsible government in November. And on a personal note, I’ll be glad to help retire Patty Murray and return her to screwing up school boards rather than contributing to the Democratic delinquency in the Senate.
Agiledog,
And the dumbass drones forget to add that “allah” specifically abrogates the earlier verses.
BLACK IOWA YOUTHS ATTACK WHITES…AGAIN!
http://angrywhitedude.com/?p=5120
Welcome to al-Thuggy’s “post racial” America
Well Wiserbud, at least we know where you stand. Islam and every practitioner of it is the enemy. <
They declared war on us, not the other way around. Learn some fucking history and then let's discuss, 'k?
some quick-study you are.
You’ve had your say. Lots of people agree with you. Some don’t. Now what?
Oh, I’m sorry, we should now just shut up and go away? Are we bothering you with our persistence? Tell you what, I’ll stop bitching about the GZM when you douchebag liberals finally lay off of Sarah Palin, ‘k?
They build the damn thing anyway. Are you going to go bomb it? You gonna try to tear it down? What’s your next move?
Not being an insane terrorist-supporting leftist, no I do not plan to use violence to get my way.
You have me mistaken with your average liberal.
I think your best bet is to say “I think this really stinks” and then move on.
You would really like that, wouldn’t you? Too bad for you. We’ve been quiet for far too long and, come November, you will hear our voices loud and clear. Your time is up.
And trust me, this mosque isn;t getting built. There is no way one single unionized NY construction worker is going to lay one brick. And try to get anything done in NY without union approval.
Spo, it doesn’t gonna get built. What are you gonna do? Whine for the rest of time about how intolerant this country is? Oh, wait, what am I saying. You will do that either way.
They declared war on us, not the other way around.
I guess we’re not on the same page as to who “they” are. You say Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda = all of Islam. I beg to differ.
Oh, I’m sorry, we should now just shut up and go away? Are we bothering you with our persistence? Tell you what, I’ll stop bitching about the GZM when you douchebag liberals finally lay off of Sarah Palin, ‘k?
LOL you kinda got me there at least on the Palin thing.
Not being an insane terrorist-supporting leftist, no I do not plan to use violence to get my way.
You have me mistaken with your average liberal.
Didn’t know Bin Laden is a liberal. I guess I’m not such a quick study after all. I guess Tim McVeigh was a lib too right?
You would really like that, wouldn’t you? Too bad for you. We’ve been quiet for far too long and, come November, you will hear our voices loud and clear. Your time is up.
NOW you’re talking! That’s where true patriots make their opinions known …. at the ballot box. Even though I fear what the Bachmann’s, Palin’s and Angle’s will do to this country if in charge, I sorta welcome it. Then we can stop talking hypotheticals and watch them screw things up at least as badly as we have it now.
And trust me, this mosque isn;t getting built. There is no way one single unionized NY construction worker is going to lay one brick. And try to get anything done in NY without union approval.
Minor correction. I tend to agree that it won’t get built at that site. Just too much heat coming down. Not sure about your union angle. The crowd on Sunday harrassed a WTC construction worker mistaking him for a Muslim. Alfie covers it with a good dose of humor here. The dude was not against the “mosque” getting built but he also was no Muslim. Bottom line, I think you’ll find construction workers on both sides of the issue and in this economy, many might swallow their discomfort to keep the checks coming in.
Spo, it doesn’t gonna get built. What are you gonna do? Whine for the rest of time about how intolerant this country is? Oh, wait, what am I saying. You will do that either way.
Nah, I’ll get over it pretty fast. If it gets moved, I’ll feel bad that we caved to our baser instincts but it won’t crush me. You see Bud … and this will really fry your shorts … I find all organized religion pretty off the wall.
I guess we’re not on the same page as to who “they” are. You say Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda = all of Islam. I beg to differ.
Tell that to the Saudis or the Mullahs who support this Mosque.
I you wish to continue to pretend that I deny that there are peaceful Muslims, go right ahead. You set up the strawman, he’s all yours, you can play with him to your hearts content.
But if you were as smart as you want us all to believe, you would realize that the Saudis are huge supporters of both OBL and this mosque. And the Saudi fully support –(wait for it…) Wahhabism, the most extreme form of Islam on the planet. And yet you want to continue to deny that this chosen location for this mosque (yes, it is a mosque) is not deliberate? Hmmmm…..
Didn’t know Bin Laden is a liberal. I guess I’m not such a quick study after all. I guess Tim McVeigh was a lib too right?
No, but Bill Ayers is. You know who he is, right? Best friend of your Beloved One? You want to play this tit-for tat game about who has more violent types on their side of the fence, you are going to lose. Badly.
You see Bud … and this will really fry your shorts … I find all organized religion pretty off the wall.
Yet again, you show how making assumptions only succeeds in making an ass out of you. I consider myself to be an agnostic, leaning atheist. I am just not an evangelical atheist. I do not feel the need to denigrate another person’s beliefs simply because I do not have them.
And, by the way, this has nothing at all to do with religion, as much as you want it to be to support your frivolous “intolerance” charge.
If you were as smart as you would like us all to think you were, you would realize that Islam is as much a political ideology as it is a religious. I could care less about the religious aspect, but it is the political part, where they wish to put all non-believers in chains or to death that I disagree with.
And permanent structures dedicated to that end, built upon the remains of American citizens murdered less than 10 years ago by these very same radical Islamists/murderous thugs is offensive to me and the majority of Americans with common sense.
“I guess we’re not on the same page as to who “they” are. You say Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda = all of Islam. I beg to differ.”
“Tell that to the Saudis or the Mullahs who support this Mosque.”
Yeah, because they represent all of Islam.
Yeah, because they represent all of Islam.
They certainly represent the radical elements of Islam and they are the ones who are funding the construction of this mosque.
I guess that’s just a bit to difficult of a concept for some to understand, especially if t hey purposely refuse to.
Drones arent interested on the history of islam.
Wiserbud, from your link:
Could you find the word mosque for me in that sentence?
State rep. not sure if “Beat Whitey Night” fights were racially motivated
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/25/state-rep-not-sure-if-beat-whitey-night-fights-were-racially-motivated/#comments
Drones arent interested in racism when applied to whites either.
Can you not read the headline? (that would be the AP writer’s words)
Oh, and “place of worship” is pretty much the definition of a “mosque” in the Muslim world. So while Princess Obama may not have said the word specifically, it is very clear what he believes.
Or you being intentionally obtuse or are you really that clueless?
^^ that reply was obviously meant for Rutherford.
Ground Zero Mosque Developer’s Ad on Muslim Website: “We are Trying to Build a Mosque That Holds 1,000 Worshippers Only 2 Blocks From Ground Zero”…
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ground-zero-mosque-developer-mosque-could-accommodate-1000
MOSQUE
Why don’t assholes like the guy in the video ever start screaming shit like that at me?
Please, Liberal psychos… Come dogcuss me, please. Better yet, get in my face.
Why Dick, I know you would handle that “in your face” discussion with (any loud mouthed/obnoxious type) nothing short of the calm, cool, collected, and methodical response it deserves. All I ask is you let me have the Plexiglas concession, cause Dick is going to shove “Mr. in your face’s” head so far up his ass, he will need the Plexiglas just to see daylight.
“Yeah, because they represent all of Islam.”
They represent true islam.
“I guess that’s just a bit to difficult of a concept for some to understand, especially if t hey purposely refuse to.”
Thats because he is an islamic apologist. He cant help it
Wiserbud, I know you think this a digression but you are aware that the same Saudi dude who has supported Rauf also contributes big bucks to News Corp … Rupert Murdoch’s outfit … ehhh Fox News? Ain’t that a rich coincidence?
I’ll reply more later …. but as much as this may upset you Bud, we are coming together slowly but surely on a few things. Amazing what a little dialog can do once the fires are put out.
P.S. Rather than say “agnostic” I like the obscure term nullifidean. I don’t like atheist because I find them as dogmatic as the religious folks they oppose. Besides, as smart as you think I think I am … I’m not smart enough to definitively say there is no God. I just don’t see Him doing much in the every day lives of people.
Wiserbud, I know you think this a digression but you are aware that the same Saudi dude who has supported Rauf also contributes big bucks to News Corp … Rupert Murdoch’s outfit … ehhh Fox News? Ain’t that a rich coincidence?
Who fucking cares? What the hell does that have to do with this discussion in the least? Is Fox News building a mosque on the graves of those killed by radical Islamists?
By the way, “investing” is not the same as “contributing.” But of course, you knew that.
Rather than say “agnostic” I like the obscure term nullifidean. I don’t like atheist because I find them as dogmatic as the religious folks they oppose.
Well, aren’t you simply the precocious one? How cute that you know such big, big words. Your parents must be so proud of you.
Besides, as smart as you think I think I am
Considering my opinion of your true level of actual intelligence, I’m surprised you recognize the existence of dogs.
Honestly, your personal faith , or lack thereof, is absolutely meaningless to me and to this discussion. I only mentioned mine to show how you, yet again, are wrong.
but as much as this may upset you Bud, we are coming together slowly but surely on a few things.
Yeah, too bad your opinion regarding that little “misfortune” we had experienced in ’01 will forever keep us apart.
It’s just a damn shame that so many people were inconvenienced that day, huh? Oh, well, la la la la la la, let’s just move on, shall we?
MSNBC Lefty Douchebag Ed Shultz Compares Tea Party Movement to Nazi “Brown Shirts in 1930s Germany”…
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/25/msnbc-lefty-douchebag-ed-shultz-compares-tea-party-movement-to-nazi-brown-shirts-in-the-1930s-germany/
This is why we will never come together. The left are nothing but evil assholes.
Oh my: House Democrats launch ads touting opposition to Obama, Pelosi
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/08/some-house-dems-run-tv-ads-heralding-opposition-to-president-obama-democratic-leaders-and-their-poli.html
Too funny. Too late
The same reason that I don’t drop off a busload of kids to play in a cemetary. Because there are some things you just don’t do.
*crosses that off list of things to do with the kids this year
So Rutherford,
why do you defend those who attacked us?
Do you support them?
Do you like the killing of American citizens?
Approve of it?
Did you dance with joy on 9/11?
Why do you defend the islamistists?
Why do you hate America?
Are you anti American?
Why?
Oh, Vmax, “attack” is such an ugly term. Rutherford prefers “mishap.”
Or “an ouchie.” That one works for him also.
In opposing us Wiser, Rutherford does not think who he is supporting. The hate runes strong in him. He will side with murders to oppose his political adversaries.
While the right will not.
Rutherford supports the mosque because leftist politics is all he knows…
Rutherford is no different that the shills on network news. He’s not the nasty KKKos material and it’s not that he is purposely evil.
It’s just that Rutherford has been indoctrinated from a young age in this vile mindset, from the irreligious stances and ridicule of Christianity always giving those who would gladly lop his head a pass, to believing Barack Obama is a brilliant guy and America just doesn’t realize it.
It’s the herd mentality of MSNBC….
Thanks Tex … it’s the nicest explanation of me I’ve heard all day. 🙂
Wiserbud, I only brought up the Saudi interest in Fox News because Fox News has been quite vocal about how suspicious this Rauf Imam is and they indicate that he is financed by Saudi’s … but they conveniently omit that they are financed by the same Saudi. When hypocrisy surrounds criticism of this dude, you can understand why I might take the criticism with a grain of salt.
Vmax … on another BiW thread we discussed the danger of judging the many by the actions of a few. That is where I’m coming from. I hope Osama bin Laden is caught and killed. My bloodlust does not extend to the average Muslim living and worshiping in lower Manhattan.
Wiserbud …. “misfortune” really got under your skin. OK, my bad … poor choice of words. It wasn’t meant to minimize the event. Gut-wrenching tragedy is more like it. Doesn’t change my stance on the matter.
My bloodlust does not extend to the average Muslim living and worshiping in lower Manhattan.
“worshipping?” You mean, like at a Mosque?
Silly wordplay. You need to bring better game than that. It is a community Center/Place of worship. No minarets, no Arabic architecture. If I’m not mistaken, Muslims need to pray several times a day. So it would be natural for a Muslim Community Center to provide a place for that to happen. I wasn’t aware that a typical feature of a mosque is a swimming pool.
The site will be patterned after a Jewish Community Center already in Manhattan.
OK now you can tell me how New York Jews are somehow demented. I’ve heard that line already to explain their support of the MCC.
You want to deny the very description that has been given to this project by the developers themselves and you accuse me of playing silly word games?
You should have stopped your comment after “I wasn’t aware.” It pretty much encompasses your entire point of view.
You see the drones will support this mosque no matter the background behind the “Cordoba Project”. They just hate this nation, plain and simple.
but they conveniently omit that they are financed by the same Saudi.
Wait, now you to stop people from being able to invest in a company because of their beliefs?
For someone who considers themselves so smart, you are really very confused, aren’t you?
Doesn’t change my stance on the matter.
Well, of course not. I mean, seriously, dude, you missed dying a horrible, fiery death by what…mere months! Seriously, how does one deal with staring directly in the dark abyss like that and still go on with their lives?
Oh, and while we’re at it, why don’t we turn Arlington Cemetery into really nice Abercrombie and Fitch, huh? I mean, what’s all this “dwelling on the misfortunes of the past” stuff good for anyway?
I’d like to see how you dismiss the woman appearing on MSNBC last night (and elsewhere) who lost her pregnant daughter in the Towers. She supports the community center being built. Don’t you think she has much more invested than I do … or perhaps even YOU do. A friend is one thing, but one’s daughter and unborn grandchild are something else.
Does everyone agree with her? No. But don’t tell me that the only people who want this center built have no real skin in the game.
I’d like to see how you dismiss the woman appearing on MSNBC last night
No problem. There will always be people who support anything, no matter how idiotic or insane the idea is. (see: Barack Obama for President) And many people will remain blind to reality, no matter how hard it smacks them in the face. Muhammed Ali spoke at a KKK rally and spoke ni support oft heir ideas.
But I guarantee you that there are far more people with the same connection to 9/11 as that woman who are opposed to this project than who support it. Strange that MSNBC couldn’t find anyone like that to have on as well.
(Nicely played, though. Completely typical. Can’t win the intellectual argument, then go with the tugging of the heartstrings, made glaringly obvious by your bolding of the word “pregnant.” Very nice touch.)
Rutherford, you’re so full of shit when you say: “Wiserbud …. “misfortune” really got under your skin. OK, my bad … poor choice of words. It wasn’t meant to minimize the event. Gut-wrenching tragedy is more like it. Doesn’t change my stance on the matter.”
Weren’t you just lecturing everyone in the same breath that “[w]e are drowning in the very victimhood that you so detest from various minorities.”
In any event, it is crystal clear that you meant precisely what you said. Shit, you held out your lunch at Windows on the World as an event that permits you to dismiss the sensitivities of those who actually suffered.
Tex hit it right with all of your despicable commentary on this subject. You sound like that complete idiot Olbermann.
Tigre, sometimes I don’t think you could follow an argument even with a map.
A lot of the folks in the inner city lead tragic lives. A lot of them have suffered discrimination and heartache. Your solution: stop playing the victim card. Get on with your life. Take some responsibility.
Well that is just a microcosm of what is going on with the “GZ Mosque”. Do you want our country to forever be looking over its shoulder, always on the defensive, erring on the side of discrimination because we suffered a terrible tragedy?
No need to answer. We already know you do. You’re perfectly happy to see 9/11 turn us from a country of love and acceptance to a country of paranoia, mistrust and blind rage.
Sometimes I think you guys need a few sessions with grief counselors. Maybe that is what America needs … one massive session with a grief counselor. Cos I’m telling you, persistent rage is not a healthy response to a personal tragedy.
“trying to stop our enemies, who have declared war on us and our way of life, from building a victory mosque at the site of their greatest triumph” = “paranoia, blind rage and mistrust.”
Only in the twisted mind of a liberal.
Maybe that is what America needs … one massive session with a grief counselor.
Yeah, I mean COME ON ALREADY!!! It’s been 9 whole years already! Can’t we just forget it and move on???
(this from someone who actually believes that he juuuuust missed being a victim of the attack on the towers because he had lunch there months prior.)
The problem, Rutherford, is that I can follow an argument. Your’s is ironically hypocritical and circular.
I would say that it’s you that needs a map, but that would imply that you were actually trying to understand the argument instead of playing dumb as so frequently do.
Rereading what you just wrote, thank you again for making my point. Poke people in the chest with your santimonsuous bullshit, then shout at them to get down from their high horses, then call them intolerant and stupid. Nope nothing wrong there.
Watched that video followed by you accusing me of harboring persitent rage — yeah, you’re right. I’ll need a map.
I take that back. You sound like that douche bag in the video.
Hey VMAX,
You’ll have to radically change your thinking when you read Rutherford.
The word “a few” has different meanings in different context to Rutherford. See “few” can mean “pandemic” with respect to pedophile priests, or the killing of abortion doctors, but “few” can also mean “a couple” with respect to Muslim suicide bombers – never mind the jihadists number millions.
See, this is a “few” for Rutherford say with respect to Islam:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
It took me many a studious year to figure out the double standards, mealy-mouth approaches, talking out both sides of the mouth, paradoxes, contortions, twisted logic, circuitous rational, hypocrisy, lies, innuendo, group think, bending the truth, libel, slander, and political correctness of the Left before I could determine the language called “progressive politics.”
Once you realize that what they say is consistently ass backwards from reality, or that illogic needs to be redefined as logic in the lib’s world, everything has a much greater degree of clarity.
but as much as this may upset you Bud, we are coming together slowly but surely on a few things.
The fact that you would say this shows that you have no reading comprehension, and are completely clueless.
P.S. Rather than say “agnostic” I like the obscure term nullifidean. I don’t like atheist because I find them as dogmatic as the religious folks they oppose.
My, aren’t you the pompus one? Nothing as pedestrian as “agnostic” or “atheist” for our little Rutherford. He is more nuanced. More refined. More “special”. What a twit. Did the jocks beat you up every day in high school, or did they take Fridays off to get ready for the game?
And this is pure, unadulterated, attempt-at-misdirection bullshit:
I only brought up the Saudi interest in Fox News because Fox News has been quite vocal about how suspicious this Rauf Imam is and they indicate that he is financed by Saudi’s … but they conveniently omit that they are financed by the same Saudi.
“financed”? Seriously, dude? You mean Fox News is not a profitable company? That they are still looking to make a profit, and need investment money to pay their bills? No, you don’t mean that – you just either 1) lied intentionally to try and make a point, or 2) mis-used a word (financed versus invested) again. Someone super-smart like you wouldn’t do that, would they? And if they were somehow controlled by these Saudis, why would they be questioning another arm of the Saudis? The wrong words AND flawed logic – Rutherford in a nut shell.
Rutherford – nuttier than a squirrel turd.
Agile … you’re the one with reading problems. I was making an attempt at partial reconciliation since I think Wiserbud and I both went further off the reservation than necessary.
As for the rest of your comment …. whooooooaa some serious insecurity problems there dude. Your anecdote about getting beaten up in school sounds very self-reflective. I’m sorry you had such a hard time and now you take it out on others as an Internet blowhard bully. No problem. I’ve “met” loads like you before … the Net is full of them. You’re hardly original.
Good Morning, Rutherford.
About the legitimate Tea Party? It’s okay. I was being playful. Never expected to win you over. My comment served it’s purpose.
Just a thought for you to consider. WHO is labeling “Tea Party Candidates” as such? Mainstream media? Some tea party group that has chosen to move away from the guidelines about not endorsing or campaigning? There are lots of charlatans out there… liberals grabbing the tea party name or some of the principles and promoting themselves. And liberals trying to offer ‘advice’ for us to help us out?? Gimme a break.
*We have charlatans in theological discussions also. Watch out for ’em. With some ecumication you can smell ’em a mile away.*
These charlatans can try to slime us, but they have no power to alter who we are and the principles by which we stand.
And about the 5 Basic Principles that you so easily jumped onto? They stand just fine by themselves. They allow the grassroots organizations affiliated to make their own determinations about events, platforms and influencing of the political parties. Simple. Genius. No need for your edit of it’s ideals. Thanks anyway.
Your comments got me to thinking that if I met you next year in Connecticut and bought you dinner with that beer, that you’d find a way to criticize the chef’s use of ginger in the entree. Or if I gave you a box of chocolates, you’d poke your finger in the bottom of each one to inspect it before you ever popped one in your mouth. As said, I never expected you to appreciate the information that was meant to bring some clarity to the discussion. Show off all ya want. Carry on.
Your last paragraph disappoints me. Even though I criticized your five point platform, you did come to the table with more than I expected.
I was making an attempt at partial reconciliation
Bullshit. You were trying to claim that you two had ALREADY started to reconcil. Pure, unadulterated, bullshit.
As for the rest of my comment – how about you address it, rather than misdirect?
And you have never met anyone like me. I am an individual. You, however, are another liberal clown.
LOL you’re an individual and I’m a stereotype. You do see how funny that is don’t you?
“It took me many a studious year to figure out the double standards, mealy-mouth approaches, talking out both sides of the mouth, paradoxes, contortions, twisted logic, circuitous rational, hypocrisy, lies, innuendo, group think, bending the truth, libel, slander, and political correctness of the Left before I could determine the language called “progressive politics.”
You summed up the drone “thinking” in a nutshell. Thats why I dont bother with them anymore. Its senseless. Some might still want to pander to these drones, but I wont. Better things to do than pander to enemies of liberty and freedom.
Saw your hero Robert Spencer referred to today on TV as “another Jim Jones.” Apparently, before he became a far right Islam-hater, he was a far left radical.
Any way you cut it, it comes out C-R-A-Z-Y.
“As for the rest of my comment – how about you address it, rather than misdirect?”
Glutton for punishment, arent you?
R is really fond of “Strawmen” isn’t he? Perhaps he sells them?
What a load of evasive, topic-changing bullshit! He’s so invested in the liberal bullshit that he can’t see a way out, and it bothers him.
1) Limit government & reclaim right to make our own decisions.
2) Fight for fiscal responsibility.
3) Hold our representatives accountable.
4) Restore the rule of law.
5) Advocate a secure & sovereign nation.
Wait a second, that’s the GREEN Party’s platform! It’s just been rephrased…
…the Tea Party is Green Party???
…just been rephrased???
Wrong. Not even close.
This list is taken from the GREEN PARTY information in wiki and I’m ASSUMING that it is correct and accurately represents how the GREEN PARTY wants to be understood:
1. Grassroots democracy
2. Social justice and equal opportunity
3. Ecological wisdom
4. Nonviolence
5. Decentralization
6. Community-based economics
7. Feminism and gender equality
8. Respect for diversity
9. Personal and global responsibility
10. Future focus and sustainability
The Tea Party’s 5 basic principle list does not equal 10 last time I checked. Maybe you can find a link to one of your favorite web reference sites that will prove this for you, huh.
The elements of CommonSenseCitizens & the Tea Party organizations I’m involved with totally avoid are avoided as part of our strategy. We steer clear of these to help keep our focus on getting the government to return to sticking with its basic enumerated powers and leave us alone. And many of these Green Party elements are known as hot-buttons that divide people when interpreting how they are to be applied. The tea party stays clear of them on purpose. Maybe because they are seen as counterproductive to stickin’ with the knittin’.
And just for the record, feminism, gender equality, diversity are not necessary in our principles. When citizens are permitted to make their own decisions and live their own lives in a sovereign and secure country with limited government intervention, these labels of ‘we the people’ are not necessary. The Tea Party already has diversity in color, age, gender, culture, religion, etc. and everyone who is part of it already knows it.
For someone who gets legalistic about sticking with HIS definitions of words to prove HIS version of the truth and justify himself… it’s juicy to see him pull this diversionary tactic . A couple of similarities in two diverse organizations with obviously differing goals gave him a toe-hold into making a stupid, sloppy comment.
There is nothing new under the sun here.
Your last paragraph disappoints me. Even though I criticized your five point platform, you did come to the table with more than I expected.
Rutherford. I’ve read this ^ about 5-6 times and still have no effin’ idea what you are communicating, just sayin’
Maybe we will never agree on how or what should be done. Fine.
For me I see clear and distinct differences between Purpose, Principles, Platform, Party, and People running for office. I’ll try one more time to explain my perspective a bit more.
The Tea Party is not a political party. It has a well-thought through set of principles along with some basic guidelines for what we will and will not get involved with, such as no campaigning or endorsing. That’s as close as we need to be right now to a platform for our organization. That actually is a better measurement of ‘more-focus’ than political party platforms. It’s much tighter on fewer elements, much more focused, and is better to help us achieve our purpose.
Political parties need leadership and candidates to meet its objectives and purpose. The tea party does not.
We are blessed to have people like Michelle Malkin, Michele Bachman, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, Andrew Breitbart, and even Rush who speak very highly of us and in some cases have partnered with us at events. Good. These personalities joined us because it’s about what is good and smart in us — not their personalities. We don’t need entertainers, rock stars, or politicians to help us keep doing what we are good at. It’s nice to have ’em. We also encourage our membership to look closely at other organizations such as ‘Americans for Prosperity’ or ‘The Heritage Foundation’ (we have a rather long list, but these are ones most folks have heard of). I don’t hear anyone trying to call the Heritage Foundation or Americans for Prosperity a political party.
Interesting Cathy …. I would think that while the Tea Party might be grateful for favorable coverage from Rush, they might also distance themselves from some of his more inflammatory comments. But since no one leader speaks for the Tea Party, I guess there is no way to get a read on whether they refute some of what Rush says or not.
As for Dan’s comparison to the Green Party, you’re absolutely right, Dan missed the boat. Of the Green Party 10 points, these are the only ones I can see the Tea Party caring about:
1.Grassroots democracy
5. Decentralization
6. Community-based economics
10. Future focus and sustainability
The first three at least by definition speak to limited Federal authority (that may not be what the Green Party had in mind but that’s how I read the words out of context).
The last one reads to me as deficit reduction.
Cathy do your organizations take any stand on any social issues?
Also, help us understand Michele Bachmann’s intention in forming the Tea Party caucus. She has said they do not represent the views of the Tea Party. I believe she described the caucus as a receptacle for their concerns. Not sure I understand that.
Hey how bout we merge Dan’s and Cathy’s and come up with the Green Tea Party? 😀
You really read the GP #5 that way?
Sure …. decentralization says to me, more authority spread over a wider spectrum, like the states vs the Fed.
Again, I’m guessing at this out of context. If you’re more familiar with the Green Party platform, let me know if I’ve misinterpreted it.
Rutherford.
I’d need to know what ‘inflammatory’ statements Rush allegedly has said first. When I listen to Rush he speaks the truth as he sees it. He seems to know how to poke the opposition in the eye and does a wonderful job at it. He is playful and at the same time — filled with incredible integrity & honesty. I can’t understand what inflammatory stuff you might have sorta fallen for (kinda kidding here and poking you in the eye just for fun).
Tell me what you think Rush said and I’ll try to address it as best I can.
And about Michele Bachmann’s Tea Party Caucus, I’d need to read more about what SHE has said on it. In her talk with us last week, she hit on it briefly, and it seemed pretty straight forward and non-intrusive into the Tea Party.
‘Caucus’ to me, means a cluster of folks who share a common interest who come together on ideas that hopefully can be put into play in the political arena… with the outcome generally being a particular political candidate OR platform element(s). I am now also a registered Republican and did participate in the Texas State Republican Convention. It was an awesome experience to caucus with a rag-tag bunch of folks in my senatorial district and come up with awesome stuff we got included into the Republicans in Texas party platform. I was convinced that the Tea Party delegation influenced in the Republican party platform and executive committee members voted in.
And a bit off topic, but supportive of much of what I’m trying to communicate in all this… It was positive and exciting for me to be a Tea Party gal WARMLY WELCOMED into my senatorial district caucus with Log-Cabin dudes, young conservatives, retired old farts, military men and women, all colors and flavors and religions or not of folks — AND FIND THAT WE AGREE on so much.
The word ‘politics’ has gotten a bad rap over the course of the past 100 years. But in it’s purest sense, it means people talking and working together to come up with unified goals to be put into play for the good of a community, state, nation.
Back on topic. Given my best understanding AT THIS TIME of Bachmann’s efforts (and I promise I’ll look into it and talk more with members of our Tea Party executive committee to hear their perspective) are fine and don’t interfere with our goals, purposes, or principles. In fact, if Michele Bachmann wants to somewhat formalize the process which would permit the Tea Party membership to influence political candidates — then to me it means she is LISTENING to us and working to conform her platform and principles TO US.
I may be wrong, but I truly think Bachmann is on the right page with us here. And I’ll include that from everything I’ve heard her say and write, I trust this woman. She has competence, integrity, decency, and her ideals conform to much if not everything I’m in favor of. She has a healthy understanding of what it means to ‘represent’ the people of her district and the citizens of our country. She has a proven record that she is doing just that — representing the will and views of the people.
Rutherford, I’ll try to cover my perspective on the Tea party taking a stand on social issues in a subsequent comment. This suckka is gettin’ long.
Hey how bout we merge Dan’s and Cathy’s and come up with the Green Tea Party? 😀
Kudos, Rutherford, on your humor.
Very cute.
Cathy do your organizations take any stand on any social issues?
The Tea Party network in which I’m involved (Dallas Tea Party, Irving Tea Party, Common Sense Citizens) steers clear of social issues in and of themselves for good reason.
This choice that has been made does not mean that we are against any particular social issue. And anyone who tries to label us that way is being moronic. But the primary focus for us is on restoration of our government to its intended purpose, a big, big, big job all by itself.
There is no better social issue than for us to get the government out of our lives and let us thrive in a safe, secure, and sovereign nation where laws are respected, enforced, and obeyed. And law-breakers need to be dealt with to help keep us safe.
To put it simply, the best application of social justice is to affirm police and other officers of the law at all levels to be able to deal with lawbreakers that are permitted to prey on the law abiding citizens and tax payers. That is JUSTICE in the true sense of the word.
Social justice does not require more laws — but for societies to be able to abide by these laws at all levels… local, community, state, and federal, and above all, the U.S. Constitution.
I referred to Malcolm Gladwell’s book “The Tipping Point” in a blog comment at Innocent Bystanders in the past day or two. This brilliant book, which is probably written by a liberal (I dunno and do not care if he’s a lib or not) shows immense support for the concept that scientifically and intelligently we need to address changing the CONTEXT of our cultures and societies before we will be able to help restore with a “Tipping Point” the healthy and positive EPIDEMICS that keep us a healthy society. Reading this book will help to explain these terms he employs.
In this work, Gladwell goes into great detail telling one story of the tipping point that caused the major cleanup of the subway systems in New York, totally reversing them from the unsafe filthy crime scenes of the back to the relatively safe methods of transportation for New Yorkers.
When we don’t allow our law enforcement officers to fight crime then crime wins and innocent people are injured, killed, and abused over and over again to ‘epidemic’ proportions. And the really said news (supported in Gladwell’s book) is that the lack of concern the government demonstrates inr addressing these crimes and enforcing the laws sends a message to EVERYONE that laws can and will continue to be broken. Lawlessness and anarchy are not far behind. Social justice is totally unattainable in a lawless society.
Maybe I’m wondering if the Tea Party is actually part of a ‘healthy epidemic’ and ‘tipping point’ that is aimed at restoring our society to what was originally intended. Addressing social ‘symptoms’ may be a poor investment of our limited resources and limelight. We don’t get much good press iffin’ you hadn’t noticed.
What are the burrs under the saddle of conservatives right now? The general lawlessness and corruption that is permitted. Specifically in my community here in Texas, but not limited to it, is ILLEGAL immigrants not only being permitted to stay here, but receiving government sponsored medical care, entitlements, and even being permitted to vote.
Taking money from decent hard-working citizens and handing it to criminals should get everybody up in arms, but it doesn’t seem to bother most liberals. Why is that? Who is insensitive to our real social issues? Looks to me like the liberals and radicals get to be blamed for that. Who is showing their lack of interest in Social Justice here? The liberals in charge.
Most of the conservatives I know are in favor of helping immigrants become citizens as quickly as possible in LEGAL ways. Many of us are daughters, sons, and grandchildren of immigrants ourselves — LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. I am. My father taught me well how fortunate we are to have this country and I will remain his proud daughter. But I’m an American first. It’s offensive and simply a lie to call us racists, greedy or lacking compassion. It sickens me. You hopefully caught my remarks at Innocent Bystanders on this subject the other day.
There is no better social issue than for us to get the government out of our lives and let us thrive in a safe, secure, and sovereign nation where laws are respected, enforced, and obeyed.
But the Green Party IS for all of this, too.
The GP would advocate getting gov’t out of our lives, out of our bedrooms (saying who you can and can’t marry, for instance – will the TP join the GP in taking that anti-gov’t stand?), out of our decisions about what to ingest or not (will the TP join the GP in calling for the decriminalization of marijuana – I THINK that’s something the GP supports).
On the other hand, the GP wants laws respected. It is against the law, for instance, to blow up and dump a mountain top into the valley below. We want gov’t to ENFORCE that law and stop enabling those law-breakers by giving them special dispensations/free passes to break laws. Same for drilling for oil offshore. Let’s enforce that ban. We HAVE clean water laws, let’s just enforce them.
Do you get my point? The general “I want smaller, responsible gov’t” is something that EVERYONE can support in generalities. The devil’s in the details. Conservatives tend to want to have SOME big gov’t in areas where they LIKE gov’t (motorist and oil company subsidies, for instance, welfare for drivers by providing free roads and parking, HUGE military overspending, for instance, HUGE prison populations generated by HUGE gov’t intrusion via “war on drugs,” for instance) and Small gov’t letting wrongdoers get a free pass in other areas.
The GP (I think) and certainly myself have some simple guidelines for what is and isn’t responsible gov’t: Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. Your rights don’t go so far as allowing you to harm others or their properties.
I would think that if we look at it in this direction, there SHOULD be some common ground found between more Green-ish and more Tea-ish types, but I sorta doubt it. But how about it? Can we rally around the “Limit laws to actually those actions which cause harm?” What could be more reasonable than that?
Also, can we agree that those who can afford it should pay their own way? No more oil and car company subsidies, no more motorist subsidies. You pay what oil and gas actually cost, not a subsidized freebie? Again, I would think that the GP and TP SHOULD be able to agree on this concept, in at least general terms.
Hey Dan, I’ll grant you the oil company subsidies when you grant me reimbursement on all those “windfall” profits taxes. And as a stockholder, how about we split the profits, instead of Benevolent Barack and Co. taking about 80% of the profits at the pump?
And I’ll gladly come out way, way ahead. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
Why do I get the distinct impression you’re living on the government dole?
Progressive – check
Liberal Theology – check
Big Daddy Gov’t – check
Muslim sympathizer – check
“Peace” Activist – check
I smell gov’t handout…. 🙂
There you go again. Dan.
Sorry, but over the course of the past week or so you have shown me your true colors. I’ve learned the hard way that with you, the more I tried to engage you and debate honestly, the more I felt my own views and the organizations and belief systems of which I hold to were slimed and misrepresented. What a disservice that was to those who were ‘listening!’
Not going to debate with you. My words will stand or fall on their own. I have far too much to do to waste my time trying to untwist all your logical contortions. Maybe someone else wants to try.
Metaphorically, I’m scrubbing your slime off me. I’ve learned from what you have said that we have little of value in common.
I haven’t said anything about your views or belief systems.
I showed how the GP is similar (in generalities) to the TP. If you don’t wish to respond to that, that is your call, but it just seems odd as hell to say that I’ve misrepresented your views when I haven’t COMMENTED on your views. And when MY views HAVE in fact been misrepresented, you are either not seeing that or not caring.
It’s just a strange way to communicate. I’m not saying it’s your fault, I just don’t see how in the world what you’re talking about matches what my comments actually were.
Que sera sera…
Nobody gets anywhere on these discussions.
I find that amusing.
Dick, you’re getting soft. I expected the mosquito to be gone by now.
I’m disappointed in you…
Dick, these comment threads often come down to mental masturbation. In the metaphor of mental masturbation, the echo chamber is the circle jerk. 🙂
Nobody gets anywhere on these discussions. I find that amusing.
Amusement parks have merry-go-rounds and roller-coasters. They go nowhere, but SOME folks pay big buck to ride them for the amusement. Amusing. Yes.
How about it anyone else? Can progressive types and anabaptist types agree with TP types and conservative types that…
We ought to avoid welfare for those who can afford to live without it? No auto company, oil company or motorist subsidies, for instance?
(Full disclosure here: By some estimates, if we removed gov’t support for motorists, we would be paying something closer to $5-15/gallon in gas? I think capitalism works best when people are paying something closer to Real Costs rather than subsidized costs) Any agreement on the end of that welfare?
How about, can we rally around the general notion to “Limit laws to actually those actions which cause harm?” If you have no compelling evidence that gay marriage or drug use is likely to cause harm to anyone other than the participants, you don’t criminalize it? Get Big Gov’t off our backs?
What do you say??!!
If you are referring to the “real” cost of gasoline as put forth by ICTA et al you are not working with honest concepts.
Say tax breaks “cost” is just hog wash. I find it particularly ignorant of the progressive minions that believe this are the same ones that think it was a good idea to keep GM and DOge afloat. The parallel being that GM especially secondary to its size and tentacles have such an impact on the economy. Hilarious that giving Big Oil a tax break isn’t offset by the tentacles into the economy they obviously have.
Counting infrastructure expenditures as being a type of subsidy for Big Oil. Again I’m laughing heartily. The infrastructure is an investment into our economy. Just ask your honest lib/prog if you can find one.
The last one I’m touching on is the use of military and diplomacy. I confess I wet myself a little on this one with the hearty guffaws and hahaha’s
“Real” costs have been calculated by many folk in many different ways. For instance, while gas taxes pay for SOME of the roadways, they don’t pay for near all of them. That comes out of the general budgets of states, usually.
State welfare for drivers, in other words.
And how about all the street space for parking cars, who’s paying for all of those millions of acres of land? General taxpayers, generally.
I could refer you some places if you’re interested.
So my question remains: WOULD you join me in calling for an end to motorist, oil company and car company subsidies (or “welfare,” as you’d call it if it were directed towards the poor)? Let’s assume I’m correct, and that motorists, etc ARE subsidized by the gov’t: IF that were the case (and it is), would you be consistent and call for an end to such subsidies?
Also, how about the general rule for creating laws: Only criminalize those behaviors that actually cause harm to someone else?
It’s rather hard to take conservatives or libertarians seriously when they decry SOME welfare, but not all, when they decry “Big Gov’t…” EXCEPT for those rules and laws they like.
TANF is an investment in our economy in a much more serious and compelling way than infrastructure is. We can manage as a country without infrastructure a helluva lot easier than we could without people.
And it wasn’t the Green Party types (ie, more progressive people) who supported bailing out car companies. Some Dems did. They were wrong, I would suggest.
But how about a straightforward answer to my questions, Alfie? I’m making some small gov’t proposals, will you join with me? I honestly think that progressives and conservatives could work together on some points IF conservatives were actually supportive of small, reasonable gov’t.
I have my doubts, by and large.
Among Religious Groups, Obama’s Ratings Highest with Muslims, Lowest with Mormons
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/08/27/among-religious-groups-obamas-ratings-highest-with-muslims-lo/
How odd, muslims favor him the most. Almost as if they think he is……..a muslim.
ROTFL … Elric should it surprise anyone that Obama is least popular with Mormons? You’re such an expert on Islam … how’s your knowledge of Mormonism? They used to say blacks were dark skinned because they sinned in a former life. Then, I think a “revelation” changed their minds about this.
You’re too much.
Ground Zero Muslim center may get public financing
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67Q5BW20100827
Bet the Christain hating drones say nothing
“LOL you’re an individual and I’m a stereotype. You do see how funny that is don’t you?”
I don’t see it as funny – I see you as a sad, pathetic, maybe even self-hurting shallow little man. What a waste – tragic, really.
Dick, you’re getting soft.
Naw… I’m saving up for the day I capture my first one.
That torture session will be something to behold, I promise.
Hand me those pliers, would ya?
I expect medieval techniques. You know, the type written in Spanish from the 15th century and locked in the Vatican’s vault.
That, or the use of lots of leather and rubber. A mask with no eye holes would be appropriate…
I like the idea of one eye hole, so they get a glance of what’s coming. Here’s some ideas Dick if you don’t have anything specific planned.
http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/torture/devices.htm
^ While in Granada Spain in the early 90s I saw some of these actual instruments on display in a museum very close to the Alhambra, along with lots and lots of wood-cut illustrations such as the ones in the link Tex gave us. According to what we read, it was party of a cluster of events ‘celebrating’ the 500th anniversary of the Spanish Inquisition.
*How lovely.*
Among Religious Groups, Obama’s Ratings Highest with Muslims, Lowest with Mormons
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/08/27/among-religious-groups-obamas-ratings-highest-with-muslims-lo/
Somehow knew al-Faheed wouldnt touch this one. 🙂
Elric liked that article so much he posted it twice. Good job sport!
I appreciate the tips guys, but I was schooled by and practiced under some of the nastiest heathen bastards on the planet.
It’s no biggie.
Dan I gave you a straightforward answer,I apologize if you don’t get it.
@cracklick66
Ya see dude I’m all for leaving you alone but you want to come out and be a jerk. Hell I even set up a comment agreeing with you on the public financing thing but canceled it secondary to thinking perhaps we should just continue on our separate ways.
909 US muslims responded to that Gallup.
Call me crazy but there is a reason for that outcome.
“Call me crazy but there is a reason for that outcome.”
Yeah, they either feel he is a muslim or at a minimum more sympathetic to the islamic cause than he is to Christians.
“Hell I even set up a comment agreeing with you on the public financing thing but canceled it secondary to thinking perhaps we should just continue on our separate ways.”
I dont want you pandering to me. Stick with pandering to the marxist drones. They like that.
This only holds in an us-against-them world, Elric. US Muslims might appreciate Obama’s expressed attitude toward Islam, REGARDLESS of how he feels about Christianity. Of course you can’t see that so long as you view Islam/Christianity as a zero sum game.
Awww, Dog, that’s about the most empathetic thing you’ve said to me in the entire thread. I’m touched.
And you’re not too far off in certain ways. I am a “little man”. I’m very short and thin as a rail. I’d venture to guess that anyone on this board (including the ladies) could easily kick my ass into next Tuesday. That’s one reason why you’ll never see me say in any blog comments section “be glad I don’t know where you live motherf*cker” … cos I have no self-delusions about my machismo.
And as for “what a waste” … yeah you’re pretty close to the mark there too. After falling from a 24 year relatively successful career at a Fortune 500 company to the past three years of chronic underemployment, I do feel pretty wasted at times. Not living up to my potential. My mom, if she were alive (the one that one of your buddies offered to f*ck on another blog), would be pretty disappointed with the state of things.
As for the other stuff, don’t swap your day job for Internet psychoanalysis. 🙂 Do you know yourself nearly as well as you think you know me? In the words of Clarice Starling from “Silence of the Lambs”:
You see a lot, Doctor. But are you strong enough to point that high-powered perception at yourself? What about it? Why don’t you – why don’t you look at yourself and write down what you see? Or maybe you’re afraid to.
Hey Rutherford, no fair! No fair! You first dared me to point my high-powered perception at myself – I was first!
I wrote down what I saw. It made me afraid… 🙂
You’re too harsh on yourself, my friend. You accomplished more than most, even if you don’t recognize that at this minute and you make the huge mistake of being a lib. 😉
How many times have I told you how foolish it is to judge yourself by career? Do I need to whip your ass again?
Much appreciated my misguided conservative friend. Funny thing is after a year of association, you and Rabbit know me way better than most of the folks in this thread. Seriously, thanks for the comment.
Well one quote would be Rush asking how our country could be Islamaphobic if we elected Barack Obama President.
But I’m beginning to see how arguments about Rush are non-starters because I think most conservatives will say Rush is just pushing buttons and doesn’t really believe the more “out there” stuff he says … or he’s using humor that is funny to conservatives and to no one else.
I can’t address Dan’s comments on gas subsidies because honestly I’m not up to speed on the issue. I always thought the prices were basically set by cartels.
However, Dan’s other idea resonates with me. I’m pretty much on board with the “don’t criminalize” purely self-destructive behavior that causes no one else harm.
The trouble arises if we carry this to its logical conclusion, i.e. a society of stoners unable to function. Then society itself breaks down. I don’t know if that would actually happen but I’m pretty sure it’s what keeps us enacting laws to prevent unnecessary drug use.
I believe you are correct about the gas cartels, R. My point is that there are a lot of freebies given to motorists that come from general funds – including taxes paid by poor folk and others who don’t own cars. Federal highways are, if I’m remembering correctly, largely paid for by gas taxes. But local and state roads, parking lots, parking spaces and perhaps bridges and other infrastructure are not paid for by gas taxes. By having motorists pay for the roads they use by placing that cost into gas taxes, that assures that those who don’t drive cars or who drive less are not paying for those who DO have cars and who drive more.
People who benefit paying their own way, instead of “freeloading” off taxpayers (in the vernacular typically used by many conservatives when talking about welfare for the poor). That would seem like a logical and reasonable step – just ask motorists to pay for ALL the roads and quit giving them free benefits.
By doing this, it would increase the personal cost of driving to a price that is closer to actual costs for driving. Of course, they would not be paying for the environmental damage done by the over-use of the personal auto (and those costs are great and WILL be borne by someone – often the poor, the sick and our children and grandchildren). Nor would they be paying in societal costs that come from the over-use of the personal auto. Toxic air in cities, especially in the summer time, take a quantifiable toll on folk – especially those sick with emphesema, asthma and other lung illnesses.
While someone here has already mentioned they don’t like the ICTA for an unsubstantiated reason, they do a good job of looking at the problem. Even if you disagree with some of their conclusions, it would be hard for a reasonable person to seriously suggest that the personal auto is not a substantially subsidized enterprise. You can read much more here…
icta.org
If anyone has a problem with their conclusions, I’m more than willing to look at objectively stated problems with some evidence to support the objection. But if someone’s claim is “You can’t trust that, cuz they’re the ICTA – and that C is for Commie!” or some such nonsense, they’re not really providing anything substantial to respond to.
I’d find conservatives easier to believe if they had some consistency to their positions, actually coming out against any and all policies and programs being subsidized by gov’t (including ones they benefit from), rather than just those that might benefit the poor.
Dan..and this time I mean it…this is the last time I’ll say anything to you.
You are an asshole.
a liar
a dishonest piece of shit.
Any rational person can look at the icta and find there entire position flawed.
I hereby dismiss you in the same manner you dismiss your betters.The exception being I’m actually right.
Do I need to whip your ass again?
Only iffin the rest of us morons get to pop some popcorn and pull up a chair,
^ Um. I’m a really bad girl. Pretty much copied that ^ from a comment made at Innocent Bystanders recently by Geezer.
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Rutherford… I think you understand Rush. He playfully repeats what is said by others and pokes at it with a stick and spins into silliness. He spots inconsistencies, makes fun, and says what everybody is thinking but no one else will say. Sometimes the media try to hang him with his comments when any honest simpleton knows he was being satirical. They sound like fools. He allows himself to be a target, because he’s popular, successful, and wealthy enough that he can afford to take the risks.
The ‘Rush’s fault’ mantra is almost as popular as ‘Bush’s fault.’ He gets a kick out of the thought that he is’ living rent-free’ in someone else’s head when he is accused of saying something he can prove he never said.
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Sorry you are bummed about the career stuff. All that is not a person’s character or value, but it can be hard to overcome your perceptions or the expectations of others.
Both my kids are currently underemployed. Tough out there. They suck it up and are riding out this economic storm. Hang in there. I’m a mom who is damn proud of both my kids despite the crappy situation. Lots of our friends are presently either out of work, recently needed to switch jobs, have had to take jobs for less pay, or are taking jobs away from home and family while living out of a suitcase.
he’s using humor that is funny to conservatives and to no one else.
Got a theory about that. Maybe only conservatives have a sense of humor.
*poke*
Ground Zero Muslim center may get public financing
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67Q5BW20100827
Bet the Christian hating drones say nothing
And I was right. Anti Christian/pro jihad drones are so predictable.
Muslim Brotherhood emerging as backer of Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero
What a surprise: the group dedicated in its own words to “eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within” has connections to the “moderate” Ground Zero mosque. “Mosque’s Saudi Patron,” from Investor’s Business Daily, August 26:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/muslim-brotherhood-emerging-as-backer-of-islamic-supremacist-mega-mosque-at-ground-zero.html
I bet this gets the GZ mosque even more support from the left.
REFRAMING!
Great technique for getting out of the frame of our own perception and possibly being able to view a larger, more realistic perspective on things. Wiki’s definition is not bad. Guys oughta try that reframing thing some time. (Some already are doing it.) Relax.
Taxes are the ‘dirty’ realistic way people in societies pay for the costs of things that are in general SUPPOSED to be good for the society.
We all don’t get our say, our way, our pay. All pay in ways… or at least should. But taxing will always be imperfect.
Roads. Everyone benefits from roads whether you drive a car or not. Not advocating one or the other. Every citizen gets to choose as far as I’m concerned. All methods of taxing for roads have their problems and someone will always feign injury or injustice. We live in imperfect societies. If I take Granny her supper every night (in my car) and then take her shopping on Saturday morning (in my car), she doesn’t drive and doesn’t own a car but she benefits immensely from roads, ALL ROADS. The folks in communities, like Amish, who don’t drive cars benefit from roads when the sweet tourists DRIVE their cars into these communities and purchase their goods, jams, jellies, quilts, farm equipment. They receive supplies that come to them in delivery trucks which travel on ROADS. People who don’t own or drive vehicles are benefit a great deal from the roads.
Marriage & Mortgage tax deductions. Married people and people who are ABLE to pay for their own homes and live in them are GOOD for societies. Evidence, historic data, supports that these people GENERALLY live in ways that are GOOD for others in society. Less crime. Pay THEIR taxes. Raise kids and prepare them to be responsible adults in society. Keep their property up and help to CREATE THE GENERAL WELFARE of others without being a burden on others. So these good folk… should they be encouraged to do these things like get married and purchase, pay for and care for a home and property? I dunno.
Governments do a good job at taxing when the tax structures set are a best fit to encourage behaviors that are good for the general welfare of as many as possible or are disincentives that discourage bad or unhealthy behaviors that might be burdensome on others, (like maybe a cigarette taxes?)
I dunno… not arguing for or against any tax in particular.
Ah ohhh al-Faheed is getting cranky with a fellow leftist. Must be to show how “moderate” he is. 🙂
Any rational person can look at the icta and find there entire position flawed.
Amen. Ditto with you on that one, Alfie.
When one uses LIES to try to prove his position…
GARBAGE IN –> GARBAGE OUT.
Everyone benefits from roads whether you drive a car or not. Not advocating one or the other. Every citizen gets to choose as far as I’m concerned.
The problem is that we DON’T all necessarily need to benefit by roads, and by roads large enough to handle all the personal autos out there. The benefits that non-motorists enjoy (having goods transported to the stores, mass transit, ambulances) could be accomplished by SMALLER roads (and/or by rail, barge) IF it weren’t for providing the mass of individual motorists with freebie roads. Also, that does not deal with all the free (welfare) parking spaces, parking lots and other infrastructure given as freebies by taxpayers to motorists that are specific benefits to motorists and not non-motorists.
Additionally, having all those motorists out there (a result of policies designed to encourage and support individual motorists as the norm) places pedestrians, bicyclists, children, the elderly, the poor and just normal folk at greater risk for accidents and health problems.
The fact is, if you look at it objectively, you can see how we’ve encouraged by law a policy supportive of individual motorists as the norm for transportation. We’ve done so by providing “welfare,” if you will, to masses of people – a benefit that goes to middle class and wealthy folk who could otherwise afford (or maybe not) to pay their own way, rather than living off the teat of gov’t.
And I’m just bringing this up as one of the most obvious way that middle class and wealthy folk get welfare from the state, living off taxpayers largesse, as a way to make two points…
1. Folk shouldn’t get all snotty about poor welfare recipients if they remember how much they live off the gov’t’s teat,
2. Conservatives/libertarians would be easier to take seriously if they were consistently against “welfare” – against programs and policies designed to assist a segment of society, to all of society’s benefit.
Since conservatives/libertarians typically AREN’T consistent on this front (although sometimes I meet a few libertarian types who are), their complaints seem to be rather weightless and appear to be more just partisan sniping than any actual principled position against big gov’t.
Same for conservatives who whine about “big gov’t,” but who also want to legislate who can marry whom, what we ingest, what people do and don’t do in their bedrooms, medical decisions, etc. They lack consistency and credibility, at least in the eyes of some of us.
Cathy…
Governments do a good job at taxing when the tax structures set are a best fit to encourage behaviors that are good for the general welfare of as many as possible or are disincentives that discourage bad or unhealthy behaviors that might be burdensome on others, (like maybe a cigarette taxes?)
Well, that is the progressive position, but I suspect you’d find that most conservatives would snipe at such a position (well, that is, unless it was encouraging behaviors they approve of).
How about the prisoner question, Cathy? Study after study shows that prisoner education and rehabilitation programs SAVE taxpayer dollars, due to reduced recidivism and increased productivity of former felons. Don’t you think that these are programs that conservatives AND liberals should be able to get behind, for the very reason you state above?
If not, why not?
Dan just took another crap in this blog.
Cleanup on aisle 13!
Dan, once again, you put meaning and agenda into OTHER peoples’ words. SLIME once again. I need a shower.
Not gonna touch responding on the issue. It would be insane on my part. You have proven to me that you are illogical, and that is the polite way to say it.
I’m starting to wonder if you are in a lock-up facility and on meds, and you get to blog in the activity center while you are in your jammies and robe. Sponge-Bob numbers.
Just wondering??!! I’m not sure of course, but this is beginning to remind me of another blog where we all DID debate with a koo-koo-bird. It was fun with that person, but you aren’t any fun. You are mean-spirited and lack humor. Maybe you are clinically insane and we are your ‘recreation’ time. I dunno. I’m not wasting my time with ya.
Okey-dokey! Where’s Rutherford! (actually I gotta get dressed and go to church and a meeting… later all you lovelies)
It probably does no good for me to point this out, but I have not “put meaning” into other peoples’ words (unlike what you just did with my words). Take a look. I have offered opinions and asked questions. Simple questions.
Will you join me in opposing motorist welfare (ie, gov’t support for motorists, oil companies and auto companies)? That would seem to be an area where we could agree, IF you are wanting to see smaller gov’t.
If you don’t agree with me, you could address why you think that’s different.
I’ve asked if you’ll join me in opposing legislations in areas of personal preference where no one gets harmed (other than perhaps the individual offender)? That would be a sign of support for smaller gov’t and a way that conservatives and progressives could probably find agreement.
That’s not putting meaning in other peoples’ words, it is making a point and asking a question. What’s the problem with that?
Cathy,
Its even more insane trying to debate these leftist drones. Good to see you finally realized it. Though Rutherford is as much insane as Dan. Hopefully will will learn that soon as well.
Enjoy your day.
Just Great. Your Taxpayer Dollars at Work- Funding The Muslim Brotherhood.
On August 31, this coming Tuesday, the Muslim Brotherhood-associated “Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations” (CCMO) will bring 25-30 Muslim leaders of 20 national Muslim groups to attend a special workshop presented by the White House and U.S. Government agencies (Agriculture, Education, Homeland Security, Health and Human Services etc.) to provide the groups “funding, government assistance and resources.” The workshop will apparently provide special access for these Muslim Brotherhood organizations: the organizers pledge to provide “direct access” and “cut through red tape.” Government and Muslim groups will hold an Iftar dinner (breaking the fast of Ramadan) after the workshop.
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/29/just-great-your-taxpayer-dollars-at-work-funding-the-muslim-brotherhood/
Only a fool at this point would say that without a doubt, al-thuggy isnt a muslim.
“Brotherhood” Invited To Obama Speech By U.S.
A sign that the Obama administration is willing to publicly challenge Egypt’s commitment to parliamentary democracy: various Middle Eastern news sources report that the administration insisted that at least 10 members of the Muslim Brotherhood, the country’s chief opposition party, be allowed to attend his speech in Cairo on Thursday. The brotherhood is a Salafist/ Islamist party with branches in many countries, and it does not have a reputation for liberalism and has supported violent campaigns against Israel (and Egypt’s own government). It has deep roots in the region and traces its intellectual lineage to Sayyid Qutb, a top American-educated Islamic intellectual who was executed — or martyred — by the Egyptian government in 1966. The Brotherhood has direct links with Sunni groups like Hamas in the Palestinian territories. Its standing in Egypt has suffered as of late because of a crackdown by the Egyptian government and a growing frustration that it is too conservative (anti-women’s rights, the whole gamut) for a modern Middle East. Still, it’s the largest Sunni opposition party in the world, and it’s clear that the Obama administration wants to engage the Sunnis — even the less moderate Sunnis — in his “Mutual Respect” tour. Hoping to tamp down criticism that by speaking in Egypt, Obama is giving legitimacy to Hosni Mubarak’s quasi-dictatorship, the administration also invited leading human rights activists to the speech.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/06/-brotherhood-invited-to-obama-speech-by-us/18693/
Like I said, people like al-Faheed are friggin idiots.
Though Rutherford is as much insane as Dan. Hopefully [you] will learn that soon as well.
Elric, having a GREAT DAY!!! ThankYouVeryMuch!
You might be right about Rutherford. Maybe ignorance is bliss. But you gotta admit (I hope) Rutherford is FUN! …and so far he has been willing to find some logical intersections in the Big Venn Diagram in the Sky where we agree and he’s been willing acknowledge it.
And I give Rutherford credit for pointing out in a gentle way something with me that made it possible for me to see how I was coming across. So at least for now, Rutherford is not in the same place as… well you get the idea.
Gonna go read and try to stay away from the computer this afternoon. Adios.
Cathy,
You want to see how radical he is? Tell him you want Palin as President in 2012.
ROTFLMAO!!!! Oh yeah …. only radicals have issues with Palin as President in 2012!!!
Elric, you’re impossible to hate dude, cos you are such a goofball. 😀
Wright: Obama Muslim myth believers ‘psychopaths’
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_JEREMIAH_WRIGHT_ARK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-08-29-15-25-25
Figures Wright and al-Faheed have the same talking points.
White Lefty Asks Black Conservative, “What Happened to Your African Religion? Christianity is the White Man’s Religion”…
What the hell is an “African religion”?
Everybody gets 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Time is limited. Not going to waste it.
What I can do: Confront dislearning and misinformation that flies around about basic Judeo-Christian beliefs & ethics and clairfy any misrepresentations I read about the Tea Party and Conservatism. AND I learn from and appreciate those with differing perspectives.
If/when to engage must take into consideration the following:
* Is the person capable of considering something that may be unfamiliar and outside his own box?
* Does this person want to learn and grow beyond his own box?
* Does the person feign injury while unaware of his anger toward and criticism of others?
* When the person responds with questions, are these to clarify and learn something I might have to offer? Or to launch another argument and introduce totally new issues to win others over to his side? Or, is he simply seeking attention no matter how negative it is?
* When I try, what happens to the message I offer? Is it changed? Criticized? Resisted? Mocked? Twisted? When I work to explain further, are my motives judged as though I’m arrogant or trying to be a ‘god’ to this person even though he asked for feedback? Do I then get new rules imposed on me about how I’m supposed to behave?
Jesus sets a good example and taught his followers when to ‘kick the dust off’ and move on. I’m still learning. I screw up plenty, but this has become a no-brainer.
Capable of considering something outside my own box? Well, as I was once a pretty conservative traditional Christian, I guess I HAVE considered something outside my own box. I’ve been on both sides of many of these issues and am familiar with them and have grown beyond my own box, I’d suggest that would be a fair assessment.
Feign injury? No, no harm, no foul. I have simply pointed out slander and ad homs when they have occurred as a matter of fact. I’m not harmed by the sticks and stones, I just find them odd in these sorts of conversations with strangers. Especially when they come from people of faith.
And, in truth, I have no anger towards anyone here. I don’t know you, why would I be angry towards you? I have simply been engaging in conversation and questioning of positions.
And, when I ask questions it is to learn answers. To hear what other people are saying AND to get them to think about what they’re saying. For instance, when someone says they’re for “small gov’t” and The Other Guys are for “Big gov’t,” then asking about criminalizing drugs or removing “motorist welfare,” gives them an opportunity to clarify what they mean by “small” and “big” gov’t, and it also helps point out that everyone is for small gov’t on some issues and larger gov’t on others. It’s a clarifying tool, when I ask questions.
Guessing that people you don’t know are “seeking attention” or are angry is just a guess and I’d suggest that, at least in my case, there’s no foundation for it and it couldn’t be further from the truth.
I have not mocked your position, nor have I changed it nor twisted nor mocked it. In fact, I don’t believe I have ever said much of anything about any of your positions. I find it interesting that you do. And, if you do, why you wouldn’t bring it up, “Dan, when you said X about my position, you are misunderstanding it because…”
I’d suggest that this would be another reason why it is good to go one-on-one on these sorts of disagreements or discussions – to allow a chance for clarity and increased understanding.
I’m always open to correction, but there needs to be some grounds for it. I’m sure you could agree that’s only reasonable, right?
Jesus DID teach his followers to kick the dust off their feet of anyone who wasn’t listening to them…
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
But there’s a difference between disagreeing (which is what I’ve done some here with some of you all) and not hearing your words.
Jesus and the early church ALSO taught us to approach people individually and in private when we wish to correct them, and to be respectful and not to slander nor bear false witness, doesn’t it trouble you that you and some others have done just this?
That is not mocking, nor twisting your words. Rather, it is pointing out that calling someone a Muslim who isn’t a Muslim or a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” who isn’t, that is a false witness. Where is the concern about that?
Cathy, I point all this out not to mock you nor embarrass you or to be confrontational, but to reach out a hand. To say that, it can be difficult to understand another person’s position – especially a stranger, especially based upon a few words on the internets.
I am not a perfect guy, of course. I am not a perfect communicator. Nor is anyone else here (just guessin’…) So, it can be easy to misunderstand someone else’s position, or to misinterpret a written line and think it is intentionally mocking or intentionally mean-spirited or written in anger, when no such intention was there.
And so, it would serve us well, given our lack of genius (at least speaking for myself) to proceed slowly, to ask clarifying questions, to repeat when something has been misunderstood and to be specific (“when you say X, I think…”). All of these seem to me to be worthwhile approaches when communicating on the internets. On the other hand, jumping to conclusions, presuming that one can guess the intentions of another, making unsupported charges, these to me all seem to be less than helpful ways of communicating on the internet.
And so, all of that to say, if I’ve sounded mean-spirited or said anything hurtful, I apologize. It was truly not my intent. If I have been unclear, I apologize, I am trying the best I can with limited time and oftentimes, I’m sure I fail.
If you have any questions to ask or points to make, I’m always glad to hear them out. I just ask for patience and mutual respect.
Peace.
“Rather, it is pointing out that calling someone a Muslim who isn’t a Muslim or a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” who isn’t, that is a false witness. Where is the concern about that?”
No, its being honest. He is a muslim. Deal with it.
I am a Muslim? That’s news to me.
Do you see how it’s a little silly to make those sorts of announcements about someone you don’t know at all? It’s easily demonstrated that I have attended Christian churches all my life. I have only visited a mosque once or twice in my life, so IF I were a Muslim, I wouldn’t be a very good Muslim, would I?
No, it is a false witness, a misrepresentation of truth. I won’t call it a lie, since I don’t know if it was intentionally stated, but it is demonstrably false and not a little silly.
Deal with that, friend.
I forget who’s who, here, Elric: Do you consider yourself a Christian?
“I am a Muslim? That’s news to me.”
Thought you were referring to your POS “president”. No, you seem to be some multicultural idiot. Not much difference though. That attitude paves the way for islam as is what happened in the UK.
Breaking: Two Men on United Flight From Chicago Arrested on ‘Preparation of a Terrorist Attack’ in Amsterdam…
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/30/breaking-two-men-on-united-flight-from-chicago-arrested-on-preparation-of-a-terrorist-attack-in-amsterdam/
I bet they were Methodists or perhaps Mormons.
Yea. The one guy is a Methodist named Bob Jackson and member of the Tea Party.
The Mormon, Jeremiah Smith, is a gun owner.
*snigger*
Feds Sue Meatpacking Plant Over Treatment of Somali Muslims…
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NE_MUSLIM_PRAYER_DISPUTE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-08-30-19-31-13
al-Thuggy’s stealth jihad continues.
Preparing for the kid’s back to school day. She started first grade today and it went very well. Then she went to the season’s first gymnastics session where they discovered they placed her in too easy a group and they immediately “promoted” her. She and her parents are very psyched.
While I do tend to defend folks of the liberal breed, my defense of Dan goes beyond that. I’ve read all of Dan’s comments and I just don’t understand why he’s encountering such animosity. Hell, I understand why I encounter animosity. (LOL) but the thing with Dan puzzles me. Alfie’s gone way off the deep end and even Cathy, a bit more moderate in tone, I’ve surmised, is equally irritated.
Now who knows … maybe I’m not reading between the lines of Dan’s comments to get his ill intent. Do I need a decoder ring?
Dan … the roads thing is an unusual example of “welfare” for the rich and middle class, as are the parking lots. The more common argument I’ve heard with which I agree fully is that the very conservatives who complain about government encroachment, would scream bloody murder if tax supported services like police, fire and sanitation were suddenly stopped.
There is such a thing as good government.
Rutherford the roads thing is a lie. The ICTA is a shill entity that has an agenda based on lunacy but some find it gospel,make snide comments that bringing up the lack of credibility of sources is ad hom etc.and then plays innocent when people get flustered.
Great news: Record number of Americans on public dole
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/30/great-news-record-number-of-americans-on-public-dole/
“good” government
Congresswoman redirected scholarships to relatives, aide’s
As if Democrats didn’t have enough troubles on the ethics front with two trials coming up in the House. Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters have company after the Dallas Morning News reported that Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson gave scholarships from a charitable fund to four relatives and the two children of her aide. The scholarships violated an anti-nepotism rule that keeps Congressional Black Caucus members from using such charitable funds as payoffs and featherbedding accounts:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/30/congresswoman-redirected-scholarships-to-relatives-aides-children/
“good” government
I just don’t understand why he’s encountering such animosity. Hell, I understand why I encounter animosity. (LOL) but the thing with Dan puzzles me… maybe I’m not reading between the lines of Dan’s comments to get his ill intent. Do I need a decoder ring?
Hahahaha! Hi Rutherford.
Ya know how over at Innocent Bystanders my hubby and I were both cool with you commenting there (and welcome you back anytime) but a few of the IB-morons were ripping pretty hard into you? I dunno why they were. Guess I don’t have their model of secret decoder ring.
Suffice it to say I understand the dynamics and my annoyance. Good for you in being supportive of Dan, but this is not ‘group therapy’ nor do we share a ‘group covenant.’
School starting and gymnastics, huh. Sounds like good times. Enjoy them and don’t blink… she’ll be grown and gone before you know it.
Suffice it to say I understand the dynamics and my annoyance.
You understand your annoyance and “the dynamics” (whatever that means), but don’t want to explain it so the target of your slander/misrepresentations understands it? Why not?
That’s one of the things that puzzling to me. If I don’t like what someone has said and it bugs me enough to annoy me, I’ll ask them about it/say something about it. “Dude, when you say X, that bugs me because…”
What I don’t understand is why someone would not do that?
But I’ve seen the pattern enough to know it is a real, if baffling, phenomenon.
Ah, well. Humans are an odd lot. C’est la vie!
^Messed up on my ‘italic’ tags. Oops. Deal with it. *snigger*
Cathy, you’re so right about the blinking. It seems like yesterday that I was changing diapers (or begging my wife to do it LOL) and I know that she’ll be getting that college diploma one day and I’ll be wondering how the years went by so fast.
I still tear up watching the BOA – Bands of America Grand Nationals Competition video with my beautiful daughter featured in part of it. I lose it every time I watch that performance. She had switched from alto sax to color guard in her Senior year. This mysterious beautiful young woman in costume with a bright colored feathered head-dress was my kid. The videographer did a close-up of her as the band began the number. Loved being a proud band-mom. Still miss it.
Just sayin’ make memories and don’t blink, “Dad.”
Wiserbud,
These drones could care less about the true history of islam. islam is an oppressive ideology so it appeals to them.
Minutes of the meeting with Hitler and Husseini.
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/#hitler
“Husseini”? Sounds “African”, doesnt it al-Faheed?
Great link btw. If the drones are as open minded as they claim, they will read it. Thanks for the link Wiserbud.
cracklick66
you’re hilarious. the whole topic of the Mufti and the Hanjar Waffen SS units and on and on are well wrung out quite thoroughly elsewhere between me,you and others, and you snap up here like it is all new.
You are also continuing your total douchebaggery regards the Hussein thing. At all times I have stressed and stood by and continue to stand by that the President didn’t pick his full name,did choose to drop Barry for Barack and that his full name is more in line with his run to the Afro roots NOT any perceived Muslim roots which are non existent anyway.
Keep asking for it cracklick and you’ll get it,otherwise I’m more than willing to let you pass on as a bad “e” memory.
Muslim Convert Ringleader Who Plotted to Bomb NY Synagogues Says: “Muslims Want to Take the U.S. Down”
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/30/muslim-convert-ringleader-who-plotted-to-bomb-ny-synagogues-says-muslims-want-to-take-the-u-s-down/#comment-240579
Multiculturalism is suicide
Keep on whining drone.
Poll: 7 in 10 New Yorkers Want Ground Zero Mosque Moved, 71% Want AG to Probe Where Money is Coming From…
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/31/poll-7-in-10-new-yorkers-want-ground-zero-mosque-moved-71-want-ag-to-probe-where-money-is-coming-from/
Wow, who would have imagined so many “phobes” in NY.
If the drones are as open minded as they claim, they will read it. Thanks for the link Wiserbud.
No problem. Glad you like it.
It will be very interesting to see the defense that the useful idiots/enemy sympathizers will put up regarding this.
“the whole topic of the Mufti and the Hanjar Waffen SS units and on and on are well wrung out quite thoroughly elsewhere between me,you and others, and you snap up here like it is all new.”
Who said it was new? Well maybe for your leftist friends, it is.
As for “Hussein”, still pushing that its “African” and not islamic dumbass? You that deseperate to sell that he isnt a muslim? You sound just like his mentor Rev Wright. You know the guy you call “a real Christian”.
Do you read what you type as you type it? Obama’s mentor may not the kind of Christian you like, but surely you acknowledge he’s not a Muslim. So Obama’s religious mentor and “adviser” is some brand of Christian …. but Obama is a Muslim.
Are you mentally ill?
“It will be very interesting to see the defense that the useful idiots/enemy sympathizers will put up regarding this.”
Well you saw al-Faheed’s “defense”.
Obama Regime Continues to Attack Arizona, Files Lawsuit Against Colleges for Requiring Non-Citizens to Prove They’re Here Legally…
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/08/31/Arizona-colleges-sued-for-discrimination/UPI-31331283269387/
Enemy of the state
Not sure why you had to reach back so far. Iran, predominantly Muslim wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. (Although interestingly, according to Wikipedia, its government recognizes Judaism as a condoned and protected religion … Iran has the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.)
Perhaps moderate Jews are better able to separate a religion from the practices of its most radical members? I don’t call that sad, I call that humane.
By the way, while you’re busy digging up documents about how Muslims conspired with Hitler to kill Jews, how ’bout we remind ourselves of how many Jews died before Christians stepped in to stop it. The holocaust was a terrible terrible tragedy in which virtually no one’s hands were clean, whether by virtue of action or inaction. Need I remind you of the famous verse that begins:
“They came first for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.”
Now you’ve hit the nail right on the head. I completely agree!
See what I mean. These drones cant help but condemn Christians. Christians not doing enough equates muslims allying themselves with nazis. Nevermind that Nazis got some of their ideas on the treatment of Jews by past examples of the Caliphate. Drones can never be vile enough, always have to outdo themselves.